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Some Helpful Dating Tips
Jul. 15th, 2009 12:45 amI'm reading a very long, but very interesting post on Age and Polyamory Organization, and there are a bunch of things that I want to discuss ... eventually. But there is one section here that seems short enough that I can make a quick comment here in my own LJ.
The author, Peppermint, has suggested 2 simple self-rules for meeting potential dating partners that I think is very good advice, and something I've done innately because I'm just a pragmatic sort of person.
The first rule is to set a minimum age limit.
Basically, the longer post is all about the cultural differences between people of very large age gaps and what that does to the polyamorous community in general. It is often very difficult to maintain a younger presence in the poly communities, and one of the biggest complaints in any alt-sex subculture is of older men hitting on much younger women. This article goes on a great length to explain why people of different age groups have trouble relating to each other, and I agree with the author that it is to our benefit to set a minimum age limit in our own dating standards.
Not that this needs to be a hard and fast, set in concrete rule, but, as Capt. Barbosa says, sort of a guideline. As Peppermint says:
1) Respect a lower age limit. If a person is below a certain age in comparison to your own, chances are they are different enough that they are not going to get along with you, and chances are they are not going to be interested in you. If someone is this age or younger, do not hit on them, no matter how cute they are.
He also references an XKCD comic that offers a formula of "age / 2 + 7", which would set my minimum age limit at 23. I actually set my minimum age limit at 27, and after my most recent disaster with a 27 year old, I'm tempted to up it to 29.
I don't think there is anything wrong with socializing with people significantly younger or older than oneself, providing one actually has enough in common to socialize with them, but I do think that significant age gaps have a tendency to include significant differences in life experiences and viewpoints, which tend to make dating someone of a different generation more difficult, although definitely not impossible.
And the cute college co-eds tend to run away when they think they're only going to get hit on by the Creepy Old Guy (which, of course, no one ever thinks he is, since many people tend to think of themselves as younger than they are). So for those on dating sites in particular, or who meet in alt-sex venues where sexual connections can be of particular concern to certain demographics, this is an especially important suggestion. If a younger person hits on you (and you're interested), well then, it's up to your own judgement whether or not to pursue it, but you can best avoid the Creepy Old Guy stigma if you just don't hit on or compliment someone on their appearance if they are in another generation, are more than half your age, or young enough to be your progeny.
I know it's controversial to say anything that could even superficially resemble "ageist" remarks, but I am talking about trends here, not absolutes, and the fact of the matter is that people really do go through life stages, and it really is more difficult to relate to people who are in a different life stage than oneself.
The second rule is, what Peppermint calls, a 30-minute rule. Don't hit on, compliment, or otherwise come-on to someone you have not been engaging in conversation with for at least 30 minutes steady.
This is a HUGE deal for the online dating scene. Everyone here has seen my Online Skeezeballs posts, where I rant and rave against creepy guys who contact me on the internet. One of my biggest pet peeves is being complimented on my physical appearance. Article after advice column after dating book all say that men should never compliment women on their appearance. They should, instead, compliment them on their acheivements. And if you absolutely cannot refrain from complimenting a woman on her appearance, then at least choose something she had a great deal of control over, like her wardrobe or accessories, and not her body.
I was once in an argument with someone who insisted that it was "gentlemanly" to compliment women and refused to listen to my suggestion that anything done to be "gentemanly" or "polite" in opposition to a direct request not to ceased to be "gentlemanly" or "polite", by definition. He then tried to defend himself by saying that if he has just met a woman, then he couldn't possibly know ahead of time if she would be the type of woman who wanted a compliment or was a woman like me who doesn't like compliments (so I should therefore sit down and take the damn compliment).
Which, of course, only backed up my own original suggestion that he talk to the women first and treat them like people, and get to know them before giving them a compliment so that he could make his compliments personal and individual, which is really what those of us who are opposed to physical compliments are really after in the first place.
So here, this 30-minute rule seems to be sort of an expansion on my suggestion of not complimenting women until you know whether she values that type of compliment. As Peppermint points out, If you just met the person or saw them from across the room, then you have not established that chemistry, and hitting on them is a serious crap shoot, even though you might be physically attracted to them. You would be surprised at how well this rule operates, and this is simply because it creates an avenue for feedback.
Peppermint goes on to clarify that the 30-minute rule does not trump the minimum age limit rule. In other words, if the person you're talking to is below whatever minimum age limit you set for yourself, talking to them for more than 30 minutes doesn't erase your age-limit rule, to which I heartily agree. Again, if the younger person is actively hitting on the older person, and the older person is amenable to a relationship, then I think the minimum age-limit rule can be reconsidered, but to avoid scaring away all the young folk and to not get labeled as Creepy Old Guy (or Creepy Mrs. Robinson, for the older ladies), don't hit on people significantly younger than yourself, and don't hit on anyone without having had an actual conversation with the person first, where the other person seems animated and happy to talk to you.
To avoid being mistaken for hitting on someone when you weren't, assume that compliments on a person's physical appearance could be construed as a come-on whether you intended it or not so don't give them, particularly, when the person in question is in violation of these two rules (which means, for those of you on social networking sites, DON'T OPEN YOUR EMAIL WITH A COMPLIMENT ON THE APPEARANCE!). Also, keeping one's eyes on the other person's face or around the room is much more preferable to glancing or staring at anything below the neck, regardless of how one is dressed. The exception is to read someone's t-shirt, but after reading comprehension has occurred, keep the eyes above the neckline until you get to know the person and a level of flirting has been established.
So two very good bits of advice for the dating scene, or even just the social activity scene.
The author, Peppermint, has suggested 2 simple self-rules for meeting potential dating partners that I think is very good advice, and something I've done innately because I'm just a pragmatic sort of person.
The first rule is to set a minimum age limit.
Basically, the longer post is all about the cultural differences between people of very large age gaps and what that does to the polyamorous community in general. It is often very difficult to maintain a younger presence in the poly communities, and one of the biggest complaints in any alt-sex subculture is of older men hitting on much younger women. This article goes on a great length to explain why people of different age groups have trouble relating to each other, and I agree with the author that it is to our benefit to set a minimum age limit in our own dating standards.
Not that this needs to be a hard and fast, set in concrete rule, but, as Capt. Barbosa says, sort of a guideline. As Peppermint says:
1) Respect a lower age limit. If a person is below a certain age in comparison to your own, chances are they are different enough that they are not going to get along with you, and chances are they are not going to be interested in you. If someone is this age or younger, do not hit on them, no matter how cute they are.
He also references an XKCD comic that offers a formula of "age / 2 + 7", which would set my minimum age limit at 23. I actually set my minimum age limit at 27, and after my most recent disaster with a 27 year old, I'm tempted to up it to 29.
I don't think there is anything wrong with socializing with people significantly younger or older than oneself, providing one actually has enough in common to socialize with them, but I do think that significant age gaps have a tendency to include significant differences in life experiences and viewpoints, which tend to make dating someone of a different generation more difficult, although definitely not impossible.
And the cute college co-eds tend to run away when they think they're only going to get hit on by the Creepy Old Guy (which, of course, no one ever thinks he is, since many people tend to think of themselves as younger than they are). So for those on dating sites in particular, or who meet in alt-sex venues where sexual connections can be of particular concern to certain demographics, this is an especially important suggestion. If a younger person hits on you (and you're interested), well then, it's up to your own judgement whether or not to pursue it, but you can best avoid the Creepy Old Guy stigma if you just don't hit on or compliment someone on their appearance if they are in another generation, are more than half your age, or young enough to be your progeny.
I know it's controversial to say anything that could even superficially resemble "ageist" remarks, but I am talking about trends here, not absolutes, and the fact of the matter is that people really do go through life stages, and it really is more difficult to relate to people who are in a different life stage than oneself.
The second rule is, what Peppermint calls, a 30-minute rule. Don't hit on, compliment, or otherwise come-on to someone you have not been engaging in conversation with for at least 30 minutes steady.
This is a HUGE deal for the online dating scene. Everyone here has seen my Online Skeezeballs posts, where I rant and rave against creepy guys who contact me on the internet. One of my biggest pet peeves is being complimented on my physical appearance. Article after advice column after dating book all say that men should never compliment women on their appearance. They should, instead, compliment them on their acheivements. And if you absolutely cannot refrain from complimenting a woman on her appearance, then at least choose something she had a great deal of control over, like her wardrobe or accessories, and not her body.
I was once in an argument with someone who insisted that it was "gentlemanly" to compliment women and refused to listen to my suggestion that anything done to be "gentemanly" or "polite" in opposition to a direct request not to ceased to be "gentlemanly" or "polite", by definition. He then tried to defend himself by saying that if he has just met a woman, then he couldn't possibly know ahead of time if she would be the type of woman who wanted a compliment or was a woman like me who doesn't like compliments (so I should therefore sit down and take the damn compliment).
Which, of course, only backed up my own original suggestion that he talk to the women first and treat them like people, and get to know them before giving them a compliment so that he could make his compliments personal and individual, which is really what those of us who are opposed to physical compliments are really after in the first place.
So here, this 30-minute rule seems to be sort of an expansion on my suggestion of not complimenting women until you know whether she values that type of compliment. As Peppermint points out, If you just met the person or saw them from across the room, then you have not established that chemistry, and hitting on them is a serious crap shoot, even though you might be physically attracted to them. You would be surprised at how well this rule operates, and this is simply because it creates an avenue for feedback.
Peppermint goes on to clarify that the 30-minute rule does not trump the minimum age limit rule. In other words, if the person you're talking to is below whatever minimum age limit you set for yourself, talking to them for more than 30 minutes doesn't erase your age-limit rule, to which I heartily agree. Again, if the younger person is actively hitting on the older person, and the older person is amenable to a relationship, then I think the minimum age-limit rule can be reconsidered, but to avoid scaring away all the young folk and to not get labeled as Creepy Old Guy (or Creepy Mrs. Robinson, for the older ladies), don't hit on people significantly younger than yourself, and don't hit on anyone without having had an actual conversation with the person first, where the other person seems animated and happy to talk to you.
To avoid being mistaken for hitting on someone when you weren't, assume that compliments on a person's physical appearance could be construed as a come-on whether you intended it or not so don't give them, particularly, when the person in question is in violation of these two rules (which means, for those of you on social networking sites, DON'T OPEN YOUR EMAIL WITH A COMPLIMENT ON THE APPEARANCE!). Also, keeping one's eyes on the other person's face or around the room is much more preferable to glancing or staring at anything below the neck, regardless of how one is dressed. The exception is to read someone's t-shirt, but after reading comprehension has occurred, keep the eyes above the neckline until you get to know the person and a level of flirting has been established.
So two very good bits of advice for the dating scene, or even just the social activity scene.
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