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Because I have such trouble getting across some of the ideas in my head, I often refer to other people's words to make my own point. In this case, Minx had a podcast some time ago (subscribe to polyamory weekly!) that covers pretty much how I think about my own sex drive. It's based, she says, on a previous journal entry of hers, but I couldn't find it. I'll just summarize instead:
How Is Your Sex Drive?
In her original journal entry (that I can't find to link to or repost), she quotes someone else as saying "I don't usually think that I want sex until someone is doing something to get me interested". Then she goes on about how she has a fairly low sex drive, but her partner can always seem to get her off, even when she didn't start out aroused. She also points out that men need to feel sexy too, and telling him that you're having dirty thoughts can achieve that end.
The podcast includes a commentary on her old LJ post:
I worked on paying attention to when I was aroused and when I wasn't aroused, without any of the guilt, without any of the "oh, I'm aroused, it's a good thing, I must do something" or "oh, I'm not aroused, there's something wrong with me" but simply "oh, hm, yeah I'm a little horny right now, hm, interesting" or "yes I'm really raging right now" or "I'm not really into anything right now, but I bet if you put something in front of me I would be". And sort of just noting, noticing my moods, noticing my arousal level, without anything attached to it. Just sort of paying attention and sort of seeing what worked and what didn't for me, without any of the pressure of the actual sex. Just sort of noticing how my sexuality and how my arousal works.
And the other thing that was really important for me to learn, is that sex ... it's almost embarrassing to admit this. It seems like, you know, I should have learned this much much earlier in life. But it was in my 20s and 30s, it took a long time to figure this out, that sex didn't have to be 100%. It didn't have to be all or nothing. The problem was, especially in past relationships, I felt that if I wasn't horny and ready for PIV sex right now that I couldn't do anything.
Basically, if I didn't think I could go "all the way", I would really back away from any type of sexual contact. I would be like "oh yeah, let's just hug, let's just snuggle, I'm not in the mood!" It took me a long time to figure out, I figured out that, for myself, I needed to give myself permission to do or say or suggest something sexy even if I didn't think I could "follow through" or "go all the way", for a couple of reasons.
First of all, it was OK just to have a stray naughty thought and not be 100% horny and ready to go. And that it's OK not to follow through.
And B) not all thoughts/acts have to lead to sex. It can just be about expressing sexuality.
And C) it makes my partner feel good to know that I'm thinking about him in a sexual way
And D) sometimes not planning sex does end up leading to much more fun, spontaneous, improvisational contact, than I can imagine. That may or may not involve a level of sexuality. You can start with a touch or start with a little flirting. And knowing that, you know, I really don't want PIV sex, I don't want anal sex, I don't want anything really violent right now, knowing that I don't want that, it may end up going, flowing freely in a direction that I hadn't anticipated at all. It's sort of that whole zen thing of letting go of the result, and just sort of acknowledging the emotion, acknowledging the arousal, and seeing where things go.
I think the big problem I have is that I was really goal oriented. I really thought that if there was any level of sexuality on my part, that I had to be willing to see it all the way through to PIV sex. Since it takes me a long time to get aroused, I don't always know where things are going, I would actually stifle and hold back on some of the sexual things, because I knew that, if you asked me at this particular moment, if you asked me "do you want to have sex?", the answer would be "no".
But I did figure out, for myself, just in the way that I express my sexuality, that it's OK just to flirt. It's OK just to touch. It's OK just to say "I want your cock", and it's not unusual for me just to say "I really want to have a cock in my mouth right now". And I may be with someone who doesn't respond particularly well to oral sex. That's OK. It's just, you know, if I feel like having it in my mouth, it doesn't have to be a success or failure kind of thing, it's just, this is what I feel like doing. It may lead to something else, or it may not.
Just seeing it as an expression of my own sexuality, instead of that whole goal-oriented, frat-boy thing, really helped me a lot.
As for me (not Minx), my sex drive is very inconsistent. I found that, whenever sex becomes a focal point, I lose interest. It could be real or perceived, but whenever I feel that there is too much emphasis put on sex, either specifically in a relationship or generally by society as a whole, my sex drive shuts down. I tend to think about sex a lot, but I'm not always interested in doing it. I'm also quite voyeuristic, which means I really enjoy watching and listening to sex, but guys seem to be very disappointed when I don't actually get turned on by watching and want to join in. I discovered in past relationships, that many men take any and all physical contact as a sign of sexual permission, so I had a tendency to not initiate any kind of physical contact. I believed that I disliked physical affection, but what I really disliked was their habit of interpreting a hug or a touch with "I want to fuck you right now".
Ironically, it was one of my poorer choices in partners that really helped me get over this. We are totally mismatched in just about every way, except physically. He also gets annoyed at girlfriends who take every single touch as "let's have sex right now". So I was able to enjoy a very wide range of physical activities that never involved sex. I could even indulge in sitting in his lap, facing him, straddling him, hugging him, and have that be nothing more than a hug. I discovered I really like this kind of hug.
Since then, I've discovered that I really crave physical affection. I love touching and I love flirting. But I still have to balance the whole "Yes I want to touch you - no I don't want to fuck you". Fortunately, as I get older, so do my partners. This means that they have more experience and understand that not all touch = sex. They're also more comfortable with the direct approach. I can say to them "I want to suck on your ear right now, but I don't want to do anything else" and I can say to them "yes, I'm horny right now, fuck me please!"
I think this outlook really helps men too, believe it or not, both to have a girlfriend with this viewpoint and if they themselves can get over the goal-oriented approach. There are many reasons why people are not in the mood right this instant and many reasons why a person can be aroused but not able to fully function sexually. As adults who are starting to get older, time and stress can make it difficult to manage a full arousal. Rather than expressing disappointment because he can't stay hard or one or both of us didn't orgasm, I can enjoy the sexual experience simply for what it is - the opportunity to express my sexuality with my partner. My partners are never considered sub-par if they don't get it up at a glance from me, can't keep it up for hours at a time, can't get me off every single time we have sex. It's not about the orgasm, it's about the touch, and there are a lot of good touches and a lot of ways I can enjoy each touch.
Once I lost the need to always arrive at some pre-determined destination, I was able to fully enjoy the journey - and discover some truly wonderful alternate destinations that I never knew were there and aren't on any map.
In her original journal entry (that I can't find to link to or repost), she quotes someone else as saying "I don't usually think that I want sex until someone is doing something to get me interested". Then she goes on about how she has a fairly low sex drive, but her partner can always seem to get her off, even when she didn't start out aroused. She also points out that men need to feel sexy too, and telling him that you're having dirty thoughts can achieve that end.
The podcast includes a commentary on her old LJ post:
I worked on paying attention to when I was aroused and when I wasn't aroused, without any of the guilt, without any of the "oh, I'm aroused, it's a good thing, I must do something" or "oh, I'm not aroused, there's something wrong with me" but simply "oh, hm, yeah I'm a little horny right now, hm, interesting" or "yes I'm really raging right now" or "I'm not really into anything right now, but I bet if you put something in front of me I would be". And sort of just noting, noticing my moods, noticing my arousal level, without anything attached to it. Just sort of paying attention and sort of seeing what worked and what didn't for me, without any of the pressure of the actual sex. Just sort of noticing how my sexuality and how my arousal works.
And the other thing that was really important for me to learn, is that sex ... it's almost embarrassing to admit this. It seems like, you know, I should have learned this much much earlier in life. But it was in my 20s and 30s, it took a long time to figure this out, that sex didn't have to be 100%. It didn't have to be all or nothing. The problem was, especially in past relationships, I felt that if I wasn't horny and ready for PIV sex right now that I couldn't do anything.
Basically, if I didn't think I could go "all the way", I would really back away from any type of sexual contact. I would be like "oh yeah, let's just hug, let's just snuggle, I'm not in the mood!" It took me a long time to figure out, I figured out that, for myself, I needed to give myself permission to do or say or suggest something sexy even if I didn't think I could "follow through" or "go all the way", for a couple of reasons.
First of all, it was OK just to have a stray naughty thought and not be 100% horny and ready to go. And that it's OK not to follow through.
And B) not all thoughts/acts have to lead to sex. It can just be about expressing sexuality.
And C) it makes my partner feel good to know that I'm thinking about him in a sexual way
And D) sometimes not planning sex does end up leading to much more fun, spontaneous, improvisational contact, than I can imagine. That may or may not involve a level of sexuality. You can start with a touch or start with a little flirting. And knowing that, you know, I really don't want PIV sex, I don't want anal sex, I don't want anything really violent right now, knowing that I don't want that, it may end up going, flowing freely in a direction that I hadn't anticipated at all. It's sort of that whole zen thing of letting go of the result, and just sort of acknowledging the emotion, acknowledging the arousal, and seeing where things go.
I think the big problem I have is that I was really goal oriented. I really thought that if there was any level of sexuality on my part, that I had to be willing to see it all the way through to PIV sex. Since it takes me a long time to get aroused, I don't always know where things are going, I would actually stifle and hold back on some of the sexual things, because I knew that, if you asked me at this particular moment, if you asked me "do you want to have sex?", the answer would be "no".
But I did figure out, for myself, just in the way that I express my sexuality, that it's OK just to flirt. It's OK just to touch. It's OK just to say "I want your cock", and it's not unusual for me just to say "I really want to have a cock in my mouth right now". And I may be with someone who doesn't respond particularly well to oral sex. That's OK. It's just, you know, if I feel like having it in my mouth, it doesn't have to be a success or failure kind of thing, it's just, this is what I feel like doing. It may lead to something else, or it may not.
Just seeing it as an expression of my own sexuality, instead of that whole goal-oriented, frat-boy thing, really helped me a lot.
As for me (not Minx), my sex drive is very inconsistent. I found that, whenever sex becomes a focal point, I lose interest. It could be real or perceived, but whenever I feel that there is too much emphasis put on sex, either specifically in a relationship or generally by society as a whole, my sex drive shuts down. I tend to think about sex a lot, but I'm not always interested in doing it. I'm also quite voyeuristic, which means I really enjoy watching and listening to sex, but guys seem to be very disappointed when I don't actually get turned on by watching and want to join in. I discovered in past relationships, that many men take any and all physical contact as a sign of sexual permission, so I had a tendency to not initiate any kind of physical contact. I believed that I disliked physical affection, but what I really disliked was their habit of interpreting a hug or a touch with "I want to fuck you right now".
Ironically, it was one of my poorer choices in partners that really helped me get over this. We are totally mismatched in just about every way, except physically. He also gets annoyed at girlfriends who take every single touch as "let's have sex right now". So I was able to enjoy a very wide range of physical activities that never involved sex. I could even indulge in sitting in his lap, facing him, straddling him, hugging him, and have that be nothing more than a hug. I discovered I really like this kind of hug.
Since then, I've discovered that I really crave physical affection. I love touching and I love flirting. But I still have to balance the whole "Yes I want to touch you - no I don't want to fuck you". Fortunately, as I get older, so do my partners. This means that they have more experience and understand that not all touch = sex. They're also more comfortable with the direct approach. I can say to them "I want to suck on your ear right now, but I don't want to do anything else" and I can say to them "yes, I'm horny right now, fuck me please!"
I think this outlook really helps men too, believe it or not, both to have a girlfriend with this viewpoint and if they themselves can get over the goal-oriented approach. There are many reasons why people are not in the mood right this instant and many reasons why a person can be aroused but not able to fully function sexually. As adults who are starting to get older, time and stress can make it difficult to manage a full arousal. Rather than expressing disappointment because he can't stay hard or one or both of us didn't orgasm, I can enjoy the sexual experience simply for what it is - the opportunity to express my sexuality with my partner. My partners are never considered sub-par if they don't get it up at a glance from me, can't keep it up for hours at a time, can't get me off every single time we have sex. It's not about the orgasm, it's about the touch, and there are a lot of good touches and a lot of ways I can enjoy each touch.
Once I lost the need to always arrive at some pre-determined destination, I was able to fully enjoy the journey - and discover some truly wonderful alternate destinations that I never knew were there and aren't on any map.
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no subject
Date: 1/9/08 02:37 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 1/9/08 06:25 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 1/9/08 07:57 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 1/9/08 02:41 am (UTC)From:Yes, I'm lurking on your LJ, and posts like this are one of the reasons. :P
Kiki
no subject
Date: 1/9/08 03:01 am (UTC)From:Ironically, I think about sex all the time.
I rarely ever get to follow through these days, but I sort of just enjoy where I go in my head with it.
And off topic, I miss you.
no subject
Date: 1/9/08 03:24 am (UTC)From:I do happen to think about sex all the time - I just don't always want to do it. Having happy and healthy relationships, however, helps keep the sex drive up!
no subject
Date: 1/9/08 04:22 am (UTC)From:*hug*
no subject
Date: 1/9/08 06:01 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 1/11/08 04:39 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 1/9/08 03:20 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 1/9/08 03:30 am (UTC)From:I've tried explaining to our sweetie before about how all these different kinds of touching and cuddling has nothing to do with sex and he doesn't get it (not with me, since we have a sexual relationship, he's fine with the non-sexual affection, but when it comes from girls he's not sexual with, he gets confused). He keeps trying to see sexual messages in all sorts of interactions and doesn't understand why these girls keep sending him these "signals". I think I'm going to email this to him, since he doesn't read my LJ.
no subject
Date: 1/9/08 04:52 pm (UTC)From:I guess it might not be fair to say that my relationships with my two cuddling friends are completely asexual. I do think that my friend D is extremely cute, but he's like an overgrown, obnoxious puppy. Cuddly yes, but I wouldn't want to let him in my bed.
My friend J and I have slept in the same bed on several occasions at house parties, and he's actually told me that he's very attracted to me, but he's also very good at compartmentalizing, so I've never gotten any sort of creepy vibe from him.
With both of them, it's really more about affection than sex. Although it is a very gendered sort of affection, because I don't have any desire to cuddle with my female friends. There's just something about a nice, big, warm man that makes me want to lie around on him.
Now with with our sweetie, I was very careful for the first ten years of our relationship to keep my physical distance, because I was wildly attracted to him but not willing to act on it. And I do imagine that there's something annoying, from a man's point of view, about women whose primary means of interracting with men is to flirt with them. I mean, why would you flirt with someone, sit on their lap, etc., if you didn't sort of like them, right? I think some women have succumbed to the social pressure to largely define themselves in terms their sexuality as it relates to men. Of course, I don't think that accounts for the behavior of all flirty women. Some girls just aren't as standoffish as I am.
no subject
Date: 1/11/08 04:39 pm (UTC)From:I can understand how someone who thinks from a primarily goal-oriented point of view might find the flirting and cuddling annoying with the mixed messages aspect, because, as you said, why would someone sit on my lap if they didn't like me? But when people simply enjoy the lap sitting with no other goal in mind, the flirting makes more sense. I find I have much less difficulty when I'm not goal-oriented and I just enjoy the experience for nothing more than it is.
no subject
Date: 1/9/08 05:30 pm (UTC)From:I'm like that a lot with my female (and to a lesser extent male) freinds. Most of my friends just say "That's David just being David," which really means they know I'm a very tactile person - I run on hugs and cuddles - but I don't usually mean any of it to be overtly sexual or consider it to be a prelude to other activities.
no subject
Date: 1/9/08 04:05 pm (UTC)From:I wish I'd started thinking of my sexuality that way years ago; it would have saved me and mine untold trauma. As it is, it's not too late to evolve now!