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So there's a guy who pissed me off recently and I want to delve into it to process the incident. As ya'll know, I do a form of ballroom dancing that's called "social dancing". It's basically people who have learned at least a little bit of formal ballroom, Latin, and/or swing dancing who then go out either to public venues or to ballroom dance studios and other dance spaces and just do what they do. Sometimes we learn something new, but mostly it's about having a good time and practicing or expressing whatever amount we *have* learned. Social dancing tends to focus on being good leaders and followers - on good communication - rather than perfect form or memorizing a lot of patterns (specific dance steps within a dance style). Many people only know a handful of patterns for each dance style that they've learned. It's about communication and connection and physical activity more than excelling at a physical art or sport. Perhaps not coincidentally, that also sounds like romantic relationships - being about communication and connection and physical activity.
Don't get me wrong, we also want to do the dances well. I've competed and I've performed. I want to improve. But to be a social dancer is to enjoy the social aspect of dancing at least as much as, if not moreso, the technical expertise. From our perspective, what makes someone a good social dancer is not how many steps they know or how perfect their lines are, it's how well they communicate to their partner and how a couple creates a dance together. So, in order to become a good social dancer, it's actually really important to dance with as many different people as possible. The more diverse your experience with other partners is, the better a social dancer you will become. This is, in fact, the foundation for a workshop that I have planned with Sterling at some nebulous future time about using social dancing to better one's communication skills in poly relationships, but that's a sidetrack. Personally, I think even competition and performance dancers benefit from dancing with multiple partners, to really hone and refine their communication skills in dancing, but for social dancers - that's what sets a good social dancer apart from a bad social dancer, not the number of steps they know or even necessarily how well they execute it.
I once danced with a competition dancer at a social swing dance. I'm a pretty decent follow. In fact, I'm actually a good enough follow that I can fool people into thinking I'm a better dancer than I am just because I can interpret their signals so well. But this competition dancer was not communicating to me at all what to do, and I felt as awkward and ungainly dancing with him as I did the very first time I took a partner dance lesson back when I was a teenager. You see, he was so used to moving his body in ways that showed off his own lines and dancing with other top-quality dancers who also were busy doing their own moves to show off *their* own lines, and often dancing to choreography so that no communication was needed, that he forgot how to communicate to someone at my level. He forgot how to *lead*. And, consequently, neither of us enjoyed that dance very much.
So, I went out dancing the other night. I've been going to this one particular swing dance social event. They claim to do "shag", according to their website, but I've never done anything there but East Coast Swing and no one seems to notice that I'm doing anything different - at least, no one has indicated so. At any rate, they "shag" to Beach Music, which is laid-back, easy-going R&B from the '70s and '80s. It's slow-ish (for swing dance music) and everyone there but me is over 65. So, to say that competition or performance style is not featured at this event is an understatement.
One guy in particular likes to dance with me often each time I go. He's a much older man who can barely move, but he can lead very well and I enjoy dancing with him. His favorite dance is actually the Hustle (it's a partner dance, I'm not talking about the '70s line dance). When he learned on one of my first nights there that I can Hustle, he made it a point to dance Hustle with me as often as he could, even doing so to songs that, while technically we can Hustle to, really have more of a swing or nightclub two-step beat. Which is fine, I really like the Hustle.
There's another guy there who is a ballroom dance instructor. Although this is a social dance setting, he often corrects me on minor points of form that is more classical ballroom. I don't mind, as I really would like to improve and I feel that, in my previous instructors' haste to create good social dancers, I didn't get a very good instruction in some of the finer or advanced points of dancing, like form and styling. He also enjoys the Hustle, but he prefers a different version of it.
You see, when students learn the Hustle for the first time, we are taught a simplified version of it. The Hustle is a syncopated dance, which means that, very basically, the steps are not always done on the down-beats. There is a step done on an off-beat. This makes it a very complicated dance to learn, in spite of there being only 2 basic foot patterns. So beginning students are taught a version that removes the syncopation - each foot is stepped on a beat in the song with no off-beat steps. Most people consider this to be the "learning" version of Hustle, and think of the syncopated version as the "real" Hustle. But the music that Hustle is danced to is typically fast music, and on the faster end of the applicable range, the syncopation can actually be so fast that sometimes style is forgotten as people try to hurry and get in all the steps in the right amount of time. So some people will occasionally go back to the unsyncopated version if the music is really fast so they can better execute the patterns.
Swing dancing does this too. East Coast Swing is often called "the triple step", although it doesn't have to be done with a triple step. Just like the Hustle, many studios will teach a simplified version to beginners, having them step to the right, then step to the left, then rock back and forward, then repeating. Later, when they get more comfortable, the students will learn how to take 3 steps to the right and 3 steps to the left in the same amount of time that the single step took, although the rock back will remain the same. Then as they get more proficient, young people especially will start dancing to faster and faster swing dance music until they're practically running around the dance floor, often losing style and finesse in their attempt to get all the patterns to fit in the speed of the song. As the music speeds up, dancers can drop back to the single side-step, side-step, rock-back that they learned in the beginning for a smoother, less frantic-looking swing dance during fast songs. But the slower, bluesy style swing music looks better when you dance the triple step version because the slowness tends to lead to pauses in dancing the single step, which most people can't do.
So, back to the incident.
The ballroom instructor prefers the unsyncopated version of the Hustle. He doesn't like to feel rushed when he's dancing, and he knows several patterns for the Hustle that he feels are easier to execute if one isn't throwing off one's beat with the syncopation. I think there are a couple of patterns that can't be done with a syncopated beat, so we'd have to slip out of the syncopation anyway to do those steps. Several dance styles have steps like this - advanced steps that break the basic foot rhythm that you just stop doing for that step and then go back to the basic foot rhythm when that pattern is done.
Personally, I have no strong preference. If the song is fast, I have no problem simplifying with an unsyncopated or simplified version. Dancing slowly is actually really hard (and kinda boring if you're not one to appreciate the beauty in the pauses) so if the music is slow, I also have no problem including the syncopation or adding a particular form of styling just to mix it up and keep things interesting. I just want to dance, and as a follow, it's my job to take what my lead is giving me and help him make pretty pictures with our movements.
The first guy has very strong opinions against the unsyncopated Hustle. He considers it a waste of time, basically "just walking", and refuses to believe that almost every dance studio starts out by teaching that version. So what, right? I mean, he can dance whatever he wants to dance, especially since he's a lead. It's not like he's ever going to dance with the instructor! Well, here's where the problem was.
After many months of attending this dance event, I've danced with both of these two men (and others) frequently and I've gotten to learn both of their styles. The first guy has a couple of patterns that he really likes and they involve spinning me a lot, which I like, so it's been fun. But he always complains about the other guy's Hustle, every time he sees him dance. So the other night, the instructor asked me to Hustle with him as the first guy Hustled with someone else. As we passed him, the first guy glared at the instructor and loudly complained about his version of the Hustle, telling him not to do the unsyncopated version with me because it wasn't the real Hustle.
Now, this guy is a crotchety old man - the kind who's difficult to tell when he's joking or actually angry because all his jokes are complaints. So we ignored him and danced. As it turned out, the song was too slow for the unsyncopated version, so we Hustled the more common way anyway and he actually gave me a correction that really improved the look of my Hustle. As we walked back to the table that we all shared, the first guy accosted the instructor and got into a shouting match about which version was the "correct" version. All the women at the table rolled their eyes, shook their heads, facepalmed, and pointedly turned their backs to show their disapproval at the argument.
Then he said what was to be the start of what pissed me off.
"Don't you dance that 4-count Hustle with her! I'm working with her and you'll just mess her up!"
Well, the instructor sat down next to me and the other guy went back to his seat at the far end of the table. The instructor and I chatted briefly about how the first guy was wrong and then we all went back to dancing with people.
Later, the first guy asked me to Hustle with him, but as he led me out onto the floor, he told me that if I was going to dance with the instructor, then he would not dance Hustle with me anymore. Because, you see, he had plenty of women there he could dance with, so he didn't need to dance with me. He was working with me, teaching me how to Hustle, and I shouldn't be doing it the "wrong way" because it will only confuse me and mess me up, preventing me from learning or maintaining "the right way", undoing all his hard work.
Caught off-guard, the only thing I said at the time was that I would dance with whoever asked me and that I was a good enough dancer to learn multiple partner's styles. But I've had some time now to get really good and pissed off about this, so now I have some things to say about it.
First of all, you never asked me if I wanted to be "worked with". I am not your student and I never agreed to any such teacher/student relationship. I am not a competition dancer or a performer. And as such, I do not need to be "worked with". When I want lessons, I'll fucking well take lessons. You do not get to put me into a non-consensual mentor relationship. I did not ask to be mentored by you and you did not ask me if I wanted a mentor.
Second, I'm incredibly offended that you think I am not a good enough dancer to learn how to adjust to different people's styles of dancing. That's my WHOLE MOTHERFUCKING DEAL. Do you really think that I dance with no other Hustle dancers ever, or that they all dance exactly like you except for this guy? Like everyone else (except, apparently, you), I learned the unsyncopated version FIRST, so I've been doing it longer anyway. Going back to it is not going to "mess me up" anymore than going back to swing dancing is going to mess up my waltz skills (I learned swing before I learned waltz). Your swing dancing is different from every other swing dancer's style here, which is VERY different from the styles of swing dancing I find at the local university's swing dance club filled with teens and twenty-somethings, which is different from the swing dancers who compete, which is different from the swing dancers in the country music scene, which is different from the swing dancers with a blues dancing background. And yet, I somehow manage to figure out how to dance with you each time we partner for swing. I also know how to both Waltz and Viennese Waltz (same basic dance, two different styles). And I know how to ballroom salsa and street salsa (again, same steps, different execution). I have learned different variations on the same dance, I have learned, let me see ... roughly 15 different dance styles from roughly 3 different continents and perhaps 6-10 different cultures, and I have danced with more partners in a single night than I can count, let alone in my lifetime. FUCK YOU for thinking that I can't handle following your lead just because I've danced with someone else who does it differently than you.
Third, I have never criticized your dancing, nor offered suggestions on how to improve. I'll have you know that I have been paid to perform as a dancer and I have competed as a ballroom dancer. And, specifically, I have taken second place in a regional East Coast Swing dance competition. With aerial lifts. So don't presume to "work with" me on your pet dance style! I've made an effort to learn the steps you like that I didn't know because that's what social dancing is all about - working together to create a shared dance experience. But do not mistake your knowledge of steps that I don't know for being the superior dancer. I have never once told you to stand up straight, or hold your frame better, or move your hand up off my waist, or to move your hips more, or to stop with the fucking heel leads - this is an American rhythm dance, get on your fucking balls of the feet and bend your knees! You complain about the unsyncopated Hustle being a marching step? You're so stiff and wooden in your dancing that no matter what dance you're doing, it looks like you're marching!
As a social dancer, this sort of poor form is not a problem. I do not hold social dancers to the same standard as performance or competition dancers (or vice versa, for that matter). I actively enjoy dancing with people who are not as good as I am, just as I hope dancers who are better than me actively enjoy dancing with me even though I'm not as good as they are. It's not about perfect lines or not missing a step. It's about fun. But if you're going to presume to take a mentoring role, without my consent, you'd better fucking be able to defend that role by actually being a better dancer than I am. You may think you know more steps than I do. But I actually know more than you do, and I know more styles of dance than you do, and in spite of our age difference, I've been dancing about as long as you have too.
I coined a phrase in polyamory: "There is no One Right Way to do polyamory, but there are plenty of wrong ways!" I think the reverse is true here: There may be several "wrong ways" to dance, but there is no One Right Way in social dancing. Everyone brings their own unique style and experience and influence to the dance floor, and mixing it up with different partners creates unique pairings that can't be replicated with any other partner. Just like romantic relationships. The dance will not look the same from couple to couple, even if one of the partners is the same in both couples. The dance won't even look the same from song to song even if you keep the same partners. Each dance is a living work of art - no two ever the same but all beautiful in their diversity and creativity. Not everyone will appreciate each work of art either. That's OK, not everyone has to. As long as the participants in the dance enjoy it, that's all that matters.
So fuck you for trying to take away my art. As I tweeted today, the one who makes me choose is the one who will lose. And if I don't let my boyfriends tell me who I can't sleep with, I'm certainly not going to let you tell me who I can't dance with. No, I don't care if you phrased it "if you choose to dance with him, then I won't dance with you", so you didn't technically tell me that I "couldn't" dance with him. Your reasons for the ultimatum are selfish, arrogant, and presumptive. Just because I accepted your instruction on a step I didn't know, it doesn't mean I agreed to a relationship in which you were grooming me to be your partner, specifically. You do not know The Right Way to dance, you only know the way you prefer to dance. You are not actually in a position to be instructing me on any supposed "right way" as you are not a better dancer than I am, you merely know some steps that I don't know (as I know some that you don't know).
Since YOU are the one who has a problem with my dancing and not he, I no longer wish to dance with you. I may also prefer the syncopated Hustle, but more than that, I prefer dance partners who enjoy my dancing, think I'm a good dancer, and feel no claim over my body, my skill, or my time. I do not tolerate such claims. I will do my best to match my dance partners when we dance together, but I will dance with whom I want, when I want, and how I want. Sometimes that may mean that I have to regroup and readjust to a preexisting partner because of a recent experience with someone else, but, in the long run, I believe it makes me an overall better partner for having had the multitude of experiences. And I believe it makes you a jackass for thinking that my experience with you will be diminished because of my experience with another.
This is video of me and that guy doing the Hustle, if you're curious to see what the Hustle looks like, what he looks like dancing, and/or what I look like dancing. This was taken on a different day, but it just happens to be the same guy and the same dance as the incident:
Don't get me wrong, we also want to do the dances well. I've competed and I've performed. I want to improve. But to be a social dancer is to enjoy the social aspect of dancing at least as much as, if not moreso, the technical expertise. From our perspective, what makes someone a good social dancer is not how many steps they know or how perfect their lines are, it's how well they communicate to their partner and how a couple creates a dance together. So, in order to become a good social dancer, it's actually really important to dance with as many different people as possible. The more diverse your experience with other partners is, the better a social dancer you will become. This is, in fact, the foundation for a workshop that I have planned with Sterling at some nebulous future time about using social dancing to better one's communication skills in poly relationships, but that's a sidetrack. Personally, I think even competition and performance dancers benefit from dancing with multiple partners, to really hone and refine their communication skills in dancing, but for social dancers - that's what sets a good social dancer apart from a bad social dancer, not the number of steps they know or even necessarily how well they execute it.
I once danced with a competition dancer at a social swing dance. I'm a pretty decent follow. In fact, I'm actually a good enough follow that I can fool people into thinking I'm a better dancer than I am just because I can interpret their signals so well. But this competition dancer was not communicating to me at all what to do, and I felt as awkward and ungainly dancing with him as I did the very first time I took a partner dance lesson back when I was a teenager. You see, he was so used to moving his body in ways that showed off his own lines and dancing with other top-quality dancers who also were busy doing their own moves to show off *their* own lines, and often dancing to choreography so that no communication was needed, that he forgot how to communicate to someone at my level. He forgot how to *lead*. And, consequently, neither of us enjoyed that dance very much.
So, I went out dancing the other night. I've been going to this one particular swing dance social event. They claim to do "shag", according to their website, but I've never done anything there but East Coast Swing and no one seems to notice that I'm doing anything different - at least, no one has indicated so. At any rate, they "shag" to Beach Music, which is laid-back, easy-going R&B from the '70s and '80s. It's slow-ish (for swing dance music) and everyone there but me is over 65. So, to say that competition or performance style is not featured at this event is an understatement.
One guy in particular likes to dance with me often each time I go. He's a much older man who can barely move, but he can lead very well and I enjoy dancing with him. His favorite dance is actually the Hustle (it's a partner dance, I'm not talking about the '70s line dance). When he learned on one of my first nights there that I can Hustle, he made it a point to dance Hustle with me as often as he could, even doing so to songs that, while technically we can Hustle to, really have more of a swing or nightclub two-step beat. Which is fine, I really like the Hustle.
There's another guy there who is a ballroom dance instructor. Although this is a social dance setting, he often corrects me on minor points of form that is more classical ballroom. I don't mind, as I really would like to improve and I feel that, in my previous instructors' haste to create good social dancers, I didn't get a very good instruction in some of the finer or advanced points of dancing, like form and styling. He also enjoys the Hustle, but he prefers a different version of it.
You see, when students learn the Hustle for the first time, we are taught a simplified version of it. The Hustle is a syncopated dance, which means that, very basically, the steps are not always done on the down-beats. There is a step done on an off-beat. This makes it a very complicated dance to learn, in spite of there being only 2 basic foot patterns. So beginning students are taught a version that removes the syncopation - each foot is stepped on a beat in the song with no off-beat steps. Most people consider this to be the "learning" version of Hustle, and think of the syncopated version as the "real" Hustle. But the music that Hustle is danced to is typically fast music, and on the faster end of the applicable range, the syncopation can actually be so fast that sometimes style is forgotten as people try to hurry and get in all the steps in the right amount of time. So some people will occasionally go back to the unsyncopated version if the music is really fast so they can better execute the patterns.
Swing dancing does this too. East Coast Swing is often called "the triple step", although it doesn't have to be done with a triple step. Just like the Hustle, many studios will teach a simplified version to beginners, having them step to the right, then step to the left, then rock back and forward, then repeating. Later, when they get more comfortable, the students will learn how to take 3 steps to the right and 3 steps to the left in the same amount of time that the single step took, although the rock back will remain the same. Then as they get more proficient, young people especially will start dancing to faster and faster swing dance music until they're practically running around the dance floor, often losing style and finesse in their attempt to get all the patterns to fit in the speed of the song. As the music speeds up, dancers can drop back to the single side-step, side-step, rock-back that they learned in the beginning for a smoother, less frantic-looking swing dance during fast songs. But the slower, bluesy style swing music looks better when you dance the triple step version because the slowness tends to lead to pauses in dancing the single step, which most people can't do.
So, back to the incident.
The ballroom instructor prefers the unsyncopated version of the Hustle. He doesn't like to feel rushed when he's dancing, and he knows several patterns for the Hustle that he feels are easier to execute if one isn't throwing off one's beat with the syncopation. I think there are a couple of patterns that can't be done with a syncopated beat, so we'd have to slip out of the syncopation anyway to do those steps. Several dance styles have steps like this - advanced steps that break the basic foot rhythm that you just stop doing for that step and then go back to the basic foot rhythm when that pattern is done.
Personally, I have no strong preference. If the song is fast, I have no problem simplifying with an unsyncopated or simplified version. Dancing slowly is actually really hard (and kinda boring if you're not one to appreciate the beauty in the pauses) so if the music is slow, I also have no problem including the syncopation or adding a particular form of styling just to mix it up and keep things interesting. I just want to dance, and as a follow, it's my job to take what my lead is giving me and help him make pretty pictures with our movements.
The first guy has very strong opinions against the unsyncopated Hustle. He considers it a waste of time, basically "just walking", and refuses to believe that almost every dance studio starts out by teaching that version. So what, right? I mean, he can dance whatever he wants to dance, especially since he's a lead. It's not like he's ever going to dance with the instructor! Well, here's where the problem was.
After many months of attending this dance event, I've danced with both of these two men (and others) frequently and I've gotten to learn both of their styles. The first guy has a couple of patterns that he really likes and they involve spinning me a lot, which I like, so it's been fun. But he always complains about the other guy's Hustle, every time he sees him dance. So the other night, the instructor asked me to Hustle with him as the first guy Hustled with someone else. As we passed him, the first guy glared at the instructor and loudly complained about his version of the Hustle, telling him not to do the unsyncopated version with me because it wasn't the real Hustle.
Now, this guy is a crotchety old man - the kind who's difficult to tell when he's joking or actually angry because all his jokes are complaints. So we ignored him and danced. As it turned out, the song was too slow for the unsyncopated version, so we Hustled the more common way anyway and he actually gave me a correction that really improved the look of my Hustle. As we walked back to the table that we all shared, the first guy accosted the instructor and got into a shouting match about which version was the "correct" version. All the women at the table rolled their eyes, shook their heads, facepalmed, and pointedly turned their backs to show their disapproval at the argument.
Then he said what was to be the start of what pissed me off.
"Don't you dance that 4-count Hustle with her! I'm working with her and you'll just mess her up!"
Well, the instructor sat down next to me and the other guy went back to his seat at the far end of the table. The instructor and I chatted briefly about how the first guy was wrong and then we all went back to dancing with people.
Later, the first guy asked me to Hustle with him, but as he led me out onto the floor, he told me that if I was going to dance with the instructor, then he would not dance Hustle with me anymore. Because, you see, he had plenty of women there he could dance with, so he didn't need to dance with me. He was working with me, teaching me how to Hustle, and I shouldn't be doing it the "wrong way" because it will only confuse me and mess me up, preventing me from learning or maintaining "the right way", undoing all his hard work.
Caught off-guard, the only thing I said at the time was that I would dance with whoever asked me and that I was a good enough dancer to learn multiple partner's styles. But I've had some time now to get really good and pissed off about this, so now I have some things to say about it.
First of all, you never asked me if I wanted to be "worked with". I am not your student and I never agreed to any such teacher/student relationship. I am not a competition dancer or a performer. And as such, I do not need to be "worked with". When I want lessons, I'll fucking well take lessons. You do not get to put me into a non-consensual mentor relationship. I did not ask to be mentored by you and you did not ask me if I wanted a mentor.
Second, I'm incredibly offended that you think I am not a good enough dancer to learn how to adjust to different people's styles of dancing. That's my WHOLE MOTHERFUCKING DEAL. Do you really think that I dance with no other Hustle dancers ever, or that they all dance exactly like you except for this guy? Like everyone else (except, apparently, you), I learned the unsyncopated version FIRST, so I've been doing it longer anyway. Going back to it is not going to "mess me up" anymore than going back to swing dancing is going to mess up my waltz skills (I learned swing before I learned waltz). Your swing dancing is different from every other swing dancer's style here, which is VERY different from the styles of swing dancing I find at the local university's swing dance club filled with teens and twenty-somethings, which is different from the swing dancers who compete, which is different from the swing dancers in the country music scene, which is different from the swing dancers with a blues dancing background. And yet, I somehow manage to figure out how to dance with you each time we partner for swing. I also know how to both Waltz and Viennese Waltz (same basic dance, two different styles). And I know how to ballroom salsa and street salsa (again, same steps, different execution). I have learned different variations on the same dance, I have learned, let me see ... roughly 15 different dance styles from roughly 3 different continents and perhaps 6-10 different cultures, and I have danced with more partners in a single night than I can count, let alone in my lifetime. FUCK YOU for thinking that I can't handle following your lead just because I've danced with someone else who does it differently than you.
Third, I have never criticized your dancing, nor offered suggestions on how to improve. I'll have you know that I have been paid to perform as a dancer and I have competed as a ballroom dancer. And, specifically, I have taken second place in a regional East Coast Swing dance competition. With aerial lifts. So don't presume to "work with" me on your pet dance style! I've made an effort to learn the steps you like that I didn't know because that's what social dancing is all about - working together to create a shared dance experience. But do not mistake your knowledge of steps that I don't know for being the superior dancer. I have never once told you to stand up straight, or hold your frame better, or move your hand up off my waist, or to move your hips more, or to stop with the fucking heel leads - this is an American rhythm dance, get on your fucking balls of the feet and bend your knees! You complain about the unsyncopated Hustle being a marching step? You're so stiff and wooden in your dancing that no matter what dance you're doing, it looks like you're marching!
As a social dancer, this sort of poor form is not a problem. I do not hold social dancers to the same standard as performance or competition dancers (or vice versa, for that matter). I actively enjoy dancing with people who are not as good as I am, just as I hope dancers who are better than me actively enjoy dancing with me even though I'm not as good as they are. It's not about perfect lines or not missing a step. It's about fun. But if you're going to presume to take a mentoring role, without my consent, you'd better fucking be able to defend that role by actually being a better dancer than I am. You may think you know more steps than I do. But I actually know more than you do, and I know more styles of dance than you do, and in spite of our age difference, I've been dancing about as long as you have too.
I coined a phrase in polyamory: "There is no One Right Way to do polyamory, but there are plenty of wrong ways!" I think the reverse is true here: There may be several "wrong ways" to dance, but there is no One Right Way in social dancing. Everyone brings their own unique style and experience and influence to the dance floor, and mixing it up with different partners creates unique pairings that can't be replicated with any other partner. Just like romantic relationships. The dance will not look the same from couple to couple, even if one of the partners is the same in both couples. The dance won't even look the same from song to song even if you keep the same partners. Each dance is a living work of art - no two ever the same but all beautiful in their diversity and creativity. Not everyone will appreciate each work of art either. That's OK, not everyone has to. As long as the participants in the dance enjoy it, that's all that matters.
So fuck you for trying to take away my art. As I tweeted today, the one who makes me choose is the one who will lose. And if I don't let my boyfriends tell me who I can't sleep with, I'm certainly not going to let you tell me who I can't dance with. No, I don't care if you phrased it "if you choose to dance with him, then I won't dance with you", so you didn't technically tell me that I "couldn't" dance with him. Your reasons for the ultimatum are selfish, arrogant, and presumptive. Just because I accepted your instruction on a step I didn't know, it doesn't mean I agreed to a relationship in which you were grooming me to be your partner, specifically. You do not know The Right Way to dance, you only know the way you prefer to dance. You are not actually in a position to be instructing me on any supposed "right way" as you are not a better dancer than I am, you merely know some steps that I don't know (as I know some that you don't know).
Since YOU are the one who has a problem with my dancing and not he, I no longer wish to dance with you. I may also prefer the syncopated Hustle, but more than that, I prefer dance partners who enjoy my dancing, think I'm a good dancer, and feel no claim over my body, my skill, or my time. I do not tolerate such claims. I will do my best to match my dance partners when we dance together, but I will dance with whom I want, when I want, and how I want. Sometimes that may mean that I have to regroup and readjust to a preexisting partner because of a recent experience with someone else, but, in the long run, I believe it makes me an overall better partner for having had the multitude of experiences. And I believe it makes you a jackass for thinking that my experience with you will be diminished because of my experience with another.
This is video of me and that guy doing the Hustle, if you're curious to see what the Hustle looks like, what he looks like dancing, and/or what I look like dancing. This was taken on a different day, but it just happens to be the same guy and the same dance as the incident:
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Hustle
Date: 8/24/13 09:33 am (UTC)From:Ironically someone who is a good follow, which I suspect really only comes with dancing with lots of people and getting experienced at "reading" what they're doing, is probably going to be more able to gradually hone in on the "perfect" way to follow the specific dance combination he had in his head at that moment. Whereas someone only dancing with one person would be more likely to be learning it from rote rather than feel -- which, to work, would require both to hit their marks perfectly at the same time, and so is likely to always be "slightly off".
Ewen
PS: I've been considering learning Swing dancing. Is there a particular style you'd suggest starting with? The very basic beginners step you're describing sounds a lot like the Rock'n'Roll beginners basic step (which I've done a bit; I've also done little bits of Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, Salsa, as well as lots of pure-improv "barefoot" dance styles). The three-step sounds a little Cha-Cha like.
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/24/13 06:38 pm (UTC)From:What you call the Rock'n'Roll beginners basic and the three-step are both the same dance - East Coast Swing - and with a good enough dance partner and the right style of music, you can switch back and forth between single and triple to accommodate a wider variety of patterns. Whether you learn the single or the triple step first depends on which teacher you learn from. Most free lessons that are offered at the beginning of public swing dances teach the single step because it's the easiest to teach a large class with a range of skill level. If the free lesson has enough time or it's a series or an "intermediate" class, they'll probably teach the triple too. Private lessons depend on what the teacher thinks is the best way to learn, and every teacher thinks they know the "best" way. As a beginner, there are only three readily-available style of swing dance lessons that you'll find: East Coast Swing, West Coast Swing, and Lindy Hop.
East Coast Swing is also called 6-count swing (even though all versions have 6-count steps). It's a side, side, rock step dance that is a "spot dance" - that means that it's danced more or less in the same spot, with both partners spinning and whirling around each other (like tango & ballroom salsa).
West Coast & Lindy are slot dances - dances where the lead dances more or less in the same spot and the follow moves in a line or "slot", crossing back and forth in front of the lead. They have both 8- and 6-count patterns.
I'll be honest - I can't really see much of a difference between West Coast and Lindy, except in culture, although I know the history and I understand where they diverged. West Coast seems to be much more popular with the country music fans while Lindy seems to be popular with the college & post-college set who want to romanticize and relive the '40s era of zoot suits and newsboy caps.
West Coast & Lindy are typically thought to be done with a slower tempo of music than East Coast, but that's not a mandatory element of the genres, as the younger dancers in both the country music scene and the neo-zoot-suit crowd like to show off with aerial lifts and fast movements. But when I go social dancing that has both types of dancers, typically West Coast is done to the slower, bluesy music and East Coast is done to the faster music. When I go to either a country bar or an event targeted towards the younger Big Band set, West Coast & Lindy tends to be done to faster music there.
cont...
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/24/13 06:42 pm (UTC)From:In the country music crowd, you'll also see people refer to a dance as "swing" that kind of looks like the side-side-rock-step of East Coast and is done frantically fast, but that's actually the Hustle. These tend to be people who picked up the dance in the country bars, not through lessons, so they don't know that it's a different dance. They also tend to like tossing the follow around, they tend to have very strong leads that I think of as "manhandling" (because the pace is so fast, they can't give the follow any flexibility or freedom to make her own choices - she has to be moved into position immediately), and they tend to look frantic and out of control, but everyone else seems to be impressed because the follow's feet spend nearly as much time above her head as they do on the ground.
East Coast triple-step is enough like the cha cha in rhythm that you can do both to many of the same songs, but they are very different in style. Swing is triple-step / triple-step / rock-step and cha cha is rock-step / triple-step / rock-step / triple-step. Cha cha uses the Latin hips and smooth movements, whereas swing does not use Latin hips and can be smooth or bouncy, depending on if you're doing a Lindy variation or a Jive variation and depending on the music.
So, which style you want to learn depends on which style you find the most aesthetically pleasing, based on movements and music. I only do East Coast Swing, but it can be done to probably the widest variety of music, IMO.
https://sites.google.com/site/orlandoballroomdance/resources/music-videos/eastcoastswingbeginnerstutorial
https://sites.google.com/site/orlandoballroomdance/resources/music-videos/swingplaylist
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/24/13 10:12 pm (UTC)From:Having watched the basic footwork video for East Coast Swing that you linked to, the basic step timing is the same as Rock'n'Roll (and basic Salsa too, for that matter). But at least the Rock'n'Roll danced here has more foot movement to it (for the lead: step left, close right to left, step right, close left to right and transfer weight, rock back on the right, rock forward with right; the basic for the follow is the mirror), and the rock step is on the other foot. So I think it'll feel "familiar but different". (I see what you mean about Cha Cha danced to the same music, but the triple step I learned for Cha Cha is a travelling one, whereas it looks like the triple step in East Coast Swing is basically on the spot.)
Given the relatively easy availability of small-class beginners East Coast Swing here, the timing and some of the moves seeming familiar, and the fact it's danceable to more music, it's probably the best place for me to start. (There are is also some West Coast Swing, and Lindy Hop beginners classes, as you mentioned. Which was part of what made it harder to figure out where to start. Besides, there's not much country music played around here.)
Ewen
PS: Having now watched the video of your Hustle dance partner, I see what you mean about the lead who was complaining. The lead is obvious (a good thing!), but it appears he's basically just being in the right place at the right time (also good, but not sufficient for "great dancer").
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/25/13 02:42 am (UTC)From:The little differences you're noticing are not differences of dance style, they're personal style. Everyone looks just a little bit different from everyone else, depending on what their personal style is and what's comfortable for their body. Even my own style changes depending on the music and my lead. I tend to mimic the smooth motions of WCS when I'm dancing to a bluesy song and I get way more bouncy when I'm dancing to a classic rock song. If someone taught you to rock back on the other foot, you didn't learn any version of swing. You either learned something different, something someone made up, or you were taught wrong (or you were taught the role your gender traditionally doesn't learn). Also, remember what I said about every instructor thinking they know the One True Way of their particular dance.
I totally believe you that someone told you there was this dance called "rock n roll" and that this is the only way it can be danced and that it's different from any other version of swing. But they're wrong. In fact, this is a problem with studios that has gone back decades. Many of these dances, including swing, were developed "on the street", so to speak. But when they became popular, Arthur Murray in particular (but other studios too) tried to codify them and script them and set it in stone so that the same dance could be taught in every studio around the country.
But that's not how many of these dances really work. They're more organic. There are certain elements that are needed to "count" as a particular dance, but the exact length of the step or whether someone moves slightly more this way or that is not important. This is the problem I had with the guy in my rant above - he was taught a particular way to do Hustle, and any other way was "wrong" in his mind, so for me to dance it differently with another guy was to "mess me up" because, apparently, I can't learn to adjust my style to my different leads. Both versions they did were equally and validly Hustle. So what you think of as "rock n roll" is just ECS danced by someone with a slightly different style than the videos I linked to.
There also isn't a "traveling" step for cha cha, per se, nor is the triple for ECS done basically on the spot. Both of them move roughly the same amount, again, depending on personal style for each dancer and what the pattern is that the dancers are doing at the time. Most swing dancers actually move in a bit of a circle - they don't stand in one place and side-step, that's just for when you're teaching the step, not for actually dancing. I've had leads who take giant movements to the side and leads who you almost couldn't tell were even lifting their feet at all, let alone moving side to side. Also, in cha cha, the triple can be done side to side OR forwards & backwards, depending on the rest of the pattern. I tend to teach the side-to-side version because all the basic beginner steps use that motion, but once you start doing things like the Chase pattern, you need to know how to cha-cha-cha forward and back.
cont...
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/25/13 04:03 am (UTC)From:Many of the schools which teach it will also teach various kinds of Swing (East Coast, West Coast, Lindy Hop, mostly, but I've heard a few others as more advanced options). Possibly that's where the confusion comes from. I mention them "in the same breath" mostly because what you were describing originally sounded like the same step structure -- but apparently isn't. How much the "Rock'n'Roll" is like any form of "Swing" class I couldn't say, as I've not taken any of those Swing classes. But from what you've said many of those styles could be danced to the same music. So I suspect there's probably some things in common, although I don't know the "dance genealogy".
I do agree, however, that almost all of these "styles" are -- like martial arts styles -- the result of people dancing and then someone come along later and attempting to describe it so more people could learn it. Which over time becomes more prescriptive than descriptive, especially when you get to competition form and judging.
Ewen
PS: I suspect mostly we've proved that the words alone are not the ideal means to communicate about dance :-)
PPS: The Cha Cha step I was taught definitely covers a lot more ground than most other steps (eg, better part of 6 feet in each direction), which is why I call it a travelling step. But since it was only a single step in a different class, I definitely accept it might be on vaguely related to the actual Cha Cha dance... and/or that "travelling" might be the wrong terminology (I was just looking for a contrast to footwork where the upper body stays basically in the same place the entire time).
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/25/13 04:50 am (UTC)From:Mostly the reason why the dance examples I've shown have the dancers moving in less space is because, as social dancers, they're used to crowded dance floors and it's considered rude to take up too much of that floor. So it's not that any style of dance has bigger steps than another, it's just courtesy that the steps are as short as possible. If you notice in the professional cha cha dancers, although they rarely do the basic step, they do an awful lot of steps that take them several feet away from where they started. That's only because they have the floor to themselves and can afford to show off extended arm and leg lines, not because there's any particular set distance that the steps are supposed to move them in.
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/25/13 05:33 am (UTC)From:It sounds like East Coast Swing is the right place for me to start, here, to learn a "more American" style of Swing -- if I can find a day to fit it in (I have three different dance styles on three different days already to fit in each week...). Given what I've learnt today I expect it'll be "similar but different", which is always a good place to start learning something new.
I accept what you say about smaller steps as a social dance habit, even though they were the only ones on the floor (mostly I've been taught "faster music == smaller steps"). The class solution to the distance covered was the usual "yoga class" solution: everyone did the same thing at the same time in the same direction, so there wasn't much risk of running into other couples. When each couple is doing their own improvised dance to the music that clearly won't work as well! (Most of the dances I've done as social dances are pretty much on the spot/change of place, so inherently take up less room. Or have a clearly defined direction of travel for everyone on the floor -- Tango/Waltz/etc.)
Ewen
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/25/13 02:44 am (UTC)From:Salsa has a very different timing from any of the swing dances. Swing is one-and-two, three-and-four, five-six (whether you step triple, double (which is what you learned), kick-step, or single) or one-two, three-and-four, five-and-six (for WCS) or one-two, three-and-four, five-six, seven-and-eight (for 8-count patterns in WCS & Lindy), whereas salsa is one-two-three (pause), one-two-three (pause). Cha cha, by the way, is one, two, three, four-and where the triple or "cha cha cha" is done on the four-and-one.
To show you what I mean about everyone looking different, here are some videos of me dancing ECS:
http://youtu.be/KBUdbqEE8lE
http://youtu.be/hzLfN-yLnqY
http://youtu.be/IdkwSMV3OnU
And here is a video explaining what cha cha looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdW4rIO2QMY
Re: Hustle
Date: 8/25/13 04:33 am (UTC)From:Many of the moves in your ECS-danced-to-Rock'n'Roll do look familiar. So it sounds like there's a fair amount of commonality. The social form of "Rock'n'Roll" (which as I say is taught separately here from, eg, East Coast Swing) doesn't have any flips, etc, in it at least at beginner level. Just turns, changes of place, and other "feet on the floor" moves.
Having looked at those videos, plus the Wikipedia page you linked to, I suspect I may have confused the foot with which the lead did the back step (and invented some extra weight changes to make it possible to move that foot!). It seems more likely that the rock back was on the left foot (for the lead). Apologies for any confusion. It's been some years since I took those beginner classes, and I've done a bunch of other dance styles since then, so keeping them all clear in my head is sometimes tricky :-)
Ewen
no subject
Date: 8/24/13 08:06 pm (UTC)From:I wouldn't dance with him either.
no subject
Date: 8/25/13 03:16 am (UTC)From:After a while, I started getting there early so I could eat first and be finished by the time the dancing started. So he started asking me to put the tables together if I got there first. It seemed like a reasonable thing to do ... until the first night I actually got my friends to join me.
I got there early to eat, and I pushed the tables together, but there were people already sitting at one of the tables in that spot. So I had to improvise. I got fewer tables and they were pushed together in a different configuration. Plus, my friends were sitting with me, although there were still several empty seats for the dancers.
When he arrived, he was quite put out that non-dancers were sitting at the table. He took me aside, first to complain about the different configuration, and then to notify me that "we like to save this section for our people".
He has complained in the past if I didn't get there early enough to save tables, or I didn't get enough tables (because someone was sitting at them when I arrived), or even if I showed up late without letting him know that I'd be there. All of this I tolerated because, as I said, he's a crotchety old man and I want to dance. But now I'm fed up and he can get his own tables and sit with his own friends and dance with all the women he says are just dying to dance with him. I've made other friends in the group now, and if he's not taking up all my time, I'm sure I'll have more opportunity to meet even more people in the group.