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This shouldn't take too long. Someone I know who is way into the woo contracted HPV-caused genital warts a few years ago. I haven't asked about the details of his infection, such as frequency or duration. I just know he actually got the warts, most presumably from a partner who also had warts about a year before his first wart showed up.
Anyway, because he's way into the woo, he didn't get them frozen off or burned off, which is the typical method of treatment (which, btw, only removes the wart, not the virus - this can cause relief from the itchy/burning symptoms, and it is currently believed that the virus is less-transmissible when there are no physical symptoms - but it can still be transmitted). No, he sought out a "natural remedy". It's called D-lenolate, which sounds all medicine-like, but don't let the name fool you.
As Dara O'Brian says, "Herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years! Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'! And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some potpourri."
So anyway, he took this stuff and his warts went away. Therefore, this extract of olive leaf must have cured his HPV. It couldn't be because warts come and go on their own whims or anything. Nothing like some confirmation bias, eh?
I found it hard to believe that I wouldn't have heard of this particular remedy if it had been real, so I looked it up. Turns out, I was right.
Every link that shows up in Google goes to a "natural wellness" store selling this crap, and one link goes to a 2006 cease and desist letter from the FDA saying this one company can't claim this shit cures anything or else it has to be classified as a drug. And if it's a drug, then it needs to go through proper channels of FDA approval before it makes its claims. Since it didn't go through proper channels, it can't make the claims. Basically, it claims to be a "natural antibiotic" (psst! antibiotics kill bacteria, not viruses, and antibiotics are not recommended for treatment of viruses except in very specific cases where opportunistic bacterial colonization is a threat) that "boosts the immune system".
Just as an easy-to-remember rule of thumb, if something claims to 'boost the immune system", that's usually a good sign that these people have no idea how the immune system works and are cashing in on our ignorance with fancy, sciencey-sounding words. You should automatically be suspicious when you see that red flag. Legitimate, tested medicine does not claim to 'boost the immune system" because that's not how the immune system works (from the ever-snarky Mark Crislip, infectious disease specialist).
So then I looked it up on PubMed, which is the number one resource to see what tests have been done and filed with legitimate science-based organizations and are up for (or have been) peer reviewed. Guess what? Not a single mention of this stuff anywhere. Not even a failed study.
In other words, IT HASN'T BEEN TESTED TO SHOW THAT IT DOES WHAT IT CLAIMS TO DO, which is cure or treat ANYTHING.
This doesn't mean that it does NOT do anything helpful. It means that there is no evidence to suggest that it DOES do something helpful, and also no tests to make sure it's safe for human consumption.
If you have, or have been exposed to, HPV-Genital Warts, do yourself a favor and don't take the advice of "some guy". Even if that "guy" is wearing a white lab coat. Ask your doctor about the 3 or 4 freezing and burning methods. They're uncomfortable, but warts are warts, and those are the only way to get rid of them.
Also, they might come back - it's a virus after all. But don't take untested, unproven "remedies" - you don't know what that shit'll do. If you're lucky, it won't do anything at all.
Anyway, because he's way into the woo, he didn't get them frozen off or burned off, which is the typical method of treatment (which, btw, only removes the wart, not the virus - this can cause relief from the itchy/burning symptoms, and it is currently believed that the virus is less-transmissible when there are no physical symptoms - but it can still be transmitted). No, he sought out a "natural remedy". It's called D-lenolate, which sounds all medicine-like, but don't let the name fool you.
As Dara O'Brian says, "Herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years! Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'! And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some potpourri."
So anyway, he took this stuff and his warts went away. Therefore, this extract of olive leaf must have cured his HPV. It couldn't be because warts come and go on their own whims or anything. Nothing like some confirmation bias, eh?
I found it hard to believe that I wouldn't have heard of this particular remedy if it had been real, so I looked it up. Turns out, I was right.
Every link that shows up in Google goes to a "natural wellness" store selling this crap, and one link goes to a 2006 cease and desist letter from the FDA saying this one company can't claim this shit cures anything or else it has to be classified as a drug. And if it's a drug, then it needs to go through proper channels of FDA approval before it makes its claims. Since it didn't go through proper channels, it can't make the claims. Basically, it claims to be a "natural antibiotic" (psst! antibiotics kill bacteria, not viruses, and antibiotics are not recommended for treatment of viruses except in very specific cases where opportunistic bacterial colonization is a threat) that "boosts the immune system".
Just as an easy-to-remember rule of thumb, if something claims to 'boost the immune system", that's usually a good sign that these people have no idea how the immune system works and are cashing in on our ignorance with fancy, sciencey-sounding words. You should automatically be suspicious when you see that red flag. Legitimate, tested medicine does not claim to 'boost the immune system" because that's not how the immune system works (from the ever-snarky Mark Crislip, infectious disease specialist).
So then I looked it up on PubMed, which is the number one resource to see what tests have been done and filed with legitimate science-based organizations and are up for (or have been) peer reviewed. Guess what? Not a single mention of this stuff anywhere. Not even a failed study.
In other words, IT HASN'T BEEN TESTED TO SHOW THAT IT DOES WHAT IT CLAIMS TO DO, which is cure or treat ANYTHING.
This doesn't mean that it does NOT do anything helpful. It means that there is no evidence to suggest that it DOES do something helpful, and also no tests to make sure it's safe for human consumption.
If you have, or have been exposed to, HPV-Genital Warts, do yourself a favor and don't take the advice of "some guy". Even if that "guy" is wearing a white lab coat. Ask your doctor about the 3 or 4 freezing and burning methods. They're uncomfortable, but warts are warts, and those are the only way to get rid of them.
Also, they might come back - it's a virus after all. But don't take untested, unproven "remedies" - you don't know what that shit'll do. If you're lucky, it won't do anything at all.
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no subject
Date: 7/21/10 01:09 am (UTC)From:yes, that is why i wrote (and you quoted me):
"it's possible that it could be effective. or not."
why did you feel the need to restate exactly what i had said, at greater length, and in a context that implied that we did not agree?
**
"I recognize that we are on the same side. I am writing about my frustration that you don't seem to see that I already made those points and that you don't need to clarify for me since I already covered that."
yes, i see that you have edited your original post to reflect some of the things i was saying. thank you.
you still might want to change this part, though:
"As Dara O'Brian says, "Herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years! Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'!""
it seems that you now agree that we have not 'tested it all'.
**
how did you come to be friends with someone as 'deep into the woo' as this guy, if you get so upset over someone who basically agrees with you, and just wants you to be a little more empirical?
oy, why do i try? because franklin seems to have such respect for you, that's why. i figured there had to be some there, there.
no subject
Date: 7/21/10 04:40 am (UTC)From:First of all, that's not what you said. Second of all, I didn't say it in a manner to imply that we didn't agree, I said it in a manner that implied my frustration that we *did* agree and you seemed to be arguing with me over it as if you thought I disagreed with you.
In the quote I used, what you said was that anecdotal evidence was good enough to suggest that an alt. med remedy might be effective, and what I said was that it was *not* good enough to suggest that it might be effective. I said it was good enough to investigate *whether or not* it's effective, or to see if something else is going on, which is often the case. That's the exact opposite of what you said.
The rest of your comment was calling for me to be more concerned with empiricism, and that was the frustration I exhibited because it appeared as though you don't seem to understand that the whole point of my post was support for empirical evidence, and that alt medicine either had none or had some against it, because when it has empirical evidence for it, it becomes labeled "medicine" and is no longer part of the alt. med pharmacy.
I also didn't edit my post, so that only reinforces my original opinion that you didn't read or understand clearly my points in the first place, which is why you offered "corrections" on points I was not making.
Sorry, but a quote is not up for changing. He said it that way, so it stays that way. You are free to approach him and ask him to retract his statement. I clarified and more accurately explained his quote in the rest of my post precisely because I know not everything has been tested (hence, the reason why I said that, explicitly), but I will not change the words within the quotation marks because they are not mine to change.
It is not always possible to know how deep into woo someone is when I first meet them. I also know lots of different types of people - I don't insulate myself to groups of people who only believe exactly as I believe. I was also more tolerant of woo when I was younger and this person stems from those days. There are many reasons how I came to be friends with someone who is "deep into the woo". I often disagree with my friends, but if you think this is "upset", you have a much higher opinion of yourself and your impact on strangers than you should. This is disagreement and annoyance that you could so miss my point.
If I am so trying to you, you can go elsewhere