Chivalry: Just Another Word For Sexism
Apr. 3rd, 2011 10:15 pmI wandered around the ballroom, feeling sleepy and bored, waiting for my crew chief to give me a job to do but not really wanting him to come up with anything because I was too sleepy to really be in the mood for work that day. A few yards away, several of my coworkers, including those in my own department, were also not doing anything. Instead, they were standing in a circle, having an animated conversation. I saw John, Phil, and Jim, and a few others who looked like they were peripherally aware of the conversation, but not actively a part of it.
As I got closer John said "Here, let's get a female perspective & ask Joreth."
"Because we're all the same person and have exactly the same perspective. Go ahead, what's the question?"
"No," John said, "I know you're not all the same person, but you're more like them than like a man."
"You obviously don't know me very well," I said.
"Well, ok, whatever, do you like roller coasters?" John said.
"Yes, I love roller coasters, why?" I said.
"Because I have this girl I want to take out on a date and I wondered if Busch Gardens was a good date place?" John said.
Phil jumped in with "I say yes, because they've done studies, and when girls get afraid, they get aroused, and they like to hug on you and be all protected and stuff."
"Yep," I said. "That works GREAT ... for those it works great for. It's a TERRIBLE idea for those girls it doesn't work for. Problem is, you don't know which one she is until you do. I have a novel idea, why don't you ask her if she likes theme parks?"
"Because girls never tell you what they like, they always say 'oh, I like whatever you like' and they want you to take charge and be in control," Phil said.
"Have we met?" I asked. "I don't know a single girl like that. I'm sure they exist, but my point is, again, that we're not all the same person and you have to treat a woman how SHE wants to be treated, and you don't know what that is until you ASK her."
From there, ensued a discussion that involved rising voices and everyone talking over each other, as each of the guys tried to insist that there was a One Right Way to treat women that all involved being "a gentleman", and I tried to explain that being a "gentleman" actually defeated the purpose if the intended recipient didn't actually like that particular behaviour.
"But men are supposed to hold open doors for women and stuff, that's how I was raised and it's a cultural thing." John said.
"I HATE it when men hold open doors for women only and not men. It is most definitely NOT polite, it's insulting and obnoxious. I actually had a guy run from down the street, tripping someone else, in his effort to beat me to the door so he could hold it open for me, but he was on the wrong side, so I would have had to walk under his arm, and he was blocking the people trying to come OUT through those doors. That's stupid and it is no longer a nice gesture when you inconvenience everyone else around you just because you're 'supposed to' do something," I said.
"Well, then I'll know from now on to treat you like a dude," John said, offering me a fist-bump.
"How about you treat me like a human being?" I asked.
"No," insisted Phil, "you're supposed to do these things. Like, when I'm walking down the street, I'll put the lady on the inside, to protect her from cars and stuff."
"I absolutely, fricking HATE that," I said.
"No, it's nice!" Phil said. "Like when you walk with a 5 year old, you put the child to the inside to protect him."
Blink blink.
"You seriously don't see anything wrong with treating an adult woman like a child?" I asked.
"No." Phil said. "It's to show her that I care about her that I want to protect her."
"You put the child to the inside because the child doesn't know any better not to run out into traffic. Putting the woman on the inside & comparing it to the child is implying that she also doesn't know any better and needs you to keep her from running into traffic. You can't see how this is insulting?" I demanded.
"If I let a woman walk on the outside, a Latin dude would think I'm offering her up as a hooker. But if I walk on the outside, the Latin dude will approve and know that I'm protecting her," Phil tried to explain (He's Puerto Rican).
"I don't give a fuck what some random Latin dude thinks, the person you should be concerned about is the woman you are insulting," I said.
This is why I'm bitchy. I'm sick of being treated like a child for the guy's approval rating in the eyes of other guys.
Why the fuck is this concept so difficult to grasp? Is it really so complicated to understand that a gesture of politeness or concern should be based on what the RECIPIENT wants, and not what makes the GIVER feel better, and that the way to find out what the recipient might like is to fucking ASK them what they might like? Don't answer that, I already know the answer and it's too depressing.
"If I ask my girl what she wants, she'll just say she doesn't know," John said, trying to bring the conversation back to the original topic.
"Well then it's her own fucking fault if she doesn't get what she wants, isn't it?" I said.
"Forget it," John said, "I'm not asking you about girls anymore, I'm going back to what the guys say".
So, apparently, the trick to figuring out the "opposite sex", is to poll all your friends of the incorrect gender, ask one random person of the same gender to be representative of that entire gender, and then throw out all the answers that don't confirm your original presumption.
I've had enough chauvenistic sexism for one day.
As I got closer John said "Here, let's get a female perspective & ask Joreth."
"Because we're all the same person and have exactly the same perspective. Go ahead, what's the question?"
"No," John said, "I know you're not all the same person, but you're more like them than like a man."
"You obviously don't know me very well," I said.
"Well, ok, whatever, do you like roller coasters?" John said.
"Yes, I love roller coasters, why?" I said.
"Because I have this girl I want to take out on a date and I wondered if Busch Gardens was a good date place?" John said.
Phil jumped in with "I say yes, because they've done studies, and when girls get afraid, they get aroused, and they like to hug on you and be all protected and stuff."
"Yep," I said. "That works GREAT ... for those it works great for. It's a TERRIBLE idea for those girls it doesn't work for. Problem is, you don't know which one she is until you do. I have a novel idea, why don't you ask her if she likes theme parks?"
"Because girls never tell you what they like, they always say 'oh, I like whatever you like' and they want you to take charge and be in control," Phil said.
"Have we met?" I asked. "I don't know a single girl like that. I'm sure they exist, but my point is, again, that we're not all the same person and you have to treat a woman how SHE wants to be treated, and you don't know what that is until you ASK her."
From there, ensued a discussion that involved rising voices and everyone talking over each other, as each of the guys tried to insist that there was a One Right Way to treat women that all involved being "a gentleman", and I tried to explain that being a "gentleman" actually defeated the purpose if the intended recipient didn't actually like that particular behaviour.
"But men are supposed to hold open doors for women and stuff, that's how I was raised and it's a cultural thing." John said.
"I HATE it when men hold open doors for women only and not men. It is most definitely NOT polite, it's insulting and obnoxious. I actually had a guy run from down the street, tripping someone else, in his effort to beat me to the door so he could hold it open for me, but he was on the wrong side, so I would have had to walk under his arm, and he was blocking the people trying to come OUT through those doors. That's stupid and it is no longer a nice gesture when you inconvenience everyone else around you just because you're 'supposed to' do something," I said.
"Well, then I'll know from now on to treat you like a dude," John said, offering me a fist-bump.
"How about you treat me like a human being?" I asked.
"No," insisted Phil, "you're supposed to do these things. Like, when I'm walking down the street, I'll put the lady on the inside, to protect her from cars and stuff."
"I absolutely, fricking HATE that," I said.
"No, it's nice!" Phil said. "Like when you walk with a 5 year old, you put the child to the inside to protect him."
Blink blink.
"You seriously don't see anything wrong with treating an adult woman like a child?" I asked.
"No." Phil said. "It's to show her that I care about her that I want to protect her."
"You put the child to the inside because the child doesn't know any better not to run out into traffic. Putting the woman on the inside & comparing it to the child is implying that she also doesn't know any better and needs you to keep her from running into traffic. You can't see how this is insulting?" I demanded.
"If I let a woman walk on the outside, a Latin dude would think I'm offering her up as a hooker. But if I walk on the outside, the Latin dude will approve and know that I'm protecting her," Phil tried to explain (He's Puerto Rican).
"I don't give a fuck what some random Latin dude thinks, the person you should be concerned about is the woman you are insulting," I said.
This is why I'm bitchy. I'm sick of being treated like a child for the guy's approval rating in the eyes of other guys.
Why the fuck is this concept so difficult to grasp? Is it really so complicated to understand that a gesture of politeness or concern should be based on what the RECIPIENT wants, and not what makes the GIVER feel better, and that the way to find out what the recipient might like is to fucking ASK them what they might like? Don't answer that, I already know the answer and it's too depressing.
"If I ask my girl what she wants, she'll just say she doesn't know," John said, trying to bring the conversation back to the original topic.
"Well then it's her own fucking fault if she doesn't get what she wants, isn't it?" I said.
"Forget it," John said, "I'm not asking you about girls anymore, I'm going back to what the guys say".
So, apparently, the trick to figuring out the "opposite sex", is to poll all your friends of the incorrect gender, ask one random person of the same gender to be representative of that entire gender, and then throw out all the answers that don't confirm your original presumption.
I've had enough chauvenistic sexism for one day.