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I just read the most godawful piece of anti-polyamory tripe out there. Unfortunately, this is representative of the anti-polyamory position, and why I get so pissed off while online. I posted a comment, but I'm not sure it'll get posted. Whether it does or not, I'm going to post both the article and my comment here:
http://ow.ly/1xoJo
Coming soon… son to marry mother
Relationships
Written by UNCLE SAM
Sunday, 11 April 2010 17:55
The other day I found myself glued to an article in The Observer about a woman who lives with two lovers in the same house in the United Kingdom!
Yes, I had read about Polyandry, where a woman has two husbands, but the prospect of hearing it from the horse’s mouth was, literally, mouth-watering. I mean, how on earth is this supposed to make sense?
As it turned out, this was not even polyandry – because the woman is not legally married to the men; it is called polyamory – each person has more than one partner and they are all okay with the situation.
Frankly speaking, this was troubling, especially coming from a country that is basking in the success of adverts warning people about the sexual network.
To give you a clear picture of what we are dealing with, assume the plot starts with me, Sam Lwanga. I live with my girlfriend Samantha and her other boyfriend, Robert, in a three-bedroom flat in Bugolobi. As if that is not bad enough, I may have another girlfriend, Sylvia, and Robert has another girlfriend called Sheila.
And we are all okay with this arrangement! Madness, isn’t it?
Fortunately this madness has not yet reached our good country, but forgive me for fearing for my beloved country. Because the pace at which things are moving, we may all catch this madness very soon.
I don’t know about you, but for me, the idea of sharing a wife or girlfriend is repulsive to the bone. And I believe that is how it should be. First of all, it is part of a man’s psyche: Your average man wants to achieve things, to accomplish things, to be in control. So if you are genuinely happy in a long-term relationship where your partner also belongs to someone else, I think you need to have your head checked…
Secondly, assume procreation became part of the menu, how on earth do such lovers apportion paternity? (Fortunately the evidence of maternity is ever so glaring). Fine, I know about science and DNA but where is the sense? That we both watch her tummy bulge and we troop to the labour ward and we take a DNA test to determine the father of the baby? Where is the sense of pride in such men?
And then think of all the health repercussions! As we grapple with HIV and Aids and are pleading with the country to get off sexual networks and return to zero-grazing, where is the place for this kind of madness? I actually suspect this thing may be a sinister plot to finish off the African race.
Someone out there must have realised that we are starting to win the war against Aids and they are now starting to promote some of this madness. Do not be shocked if one of these days, you see adverts promoting polyamory or some other mory – in Kampala.
But my worst fear is, where will this obsession with “self-determination”, “consenting adults” and “right to choose” end? At this rate, a time is coming when two consenting adults Julia Lwanga, 45 and her 20-year-old son, Simon Lwanga, are going to fall in love and even sire a child.
And society will be okay with that. God forbid, but if you and I do not reject this age of liberal licentiousness, we are doomed. We are inching ever closer to a world where sons marry mothers and brothers and sisters are free to do their thing provided they are consenting adults. Crazy!
unclesams07@gmail.com (I'm not posting his email to be mean, he posted it himself right in his blog - I copied it exactly without any changes including the email).
my comment:
Your post is so full of wrong that it's fractally wrong. It would take a time machine to go back to your toddlerhood to undo all the outright falsehoods you are spewing in this ignorant, factually incorrect, sexist, bigoted piece of drivel.
Forget, for a moment, that it is completely irrelevant whether or not YOU approve of someone else's relationship. You don't have to like the way someone else does it, just don't do the same. Let's start with your sexism. You have managed to insult both genders with your ignorance. Not all men are as small-minded, possessive, sexist, jealous, insecure, and childish as you are and it is highly insulting to men everywhere that you claim anything in common with them other than genitalia. I am offended on behalf of all men that you are a member of their group. You clearly do not think much of the male gender to characterize them so pitifully, as small-minded cavemen who haven't evolved past knocking a female on the head and dragging her back to the cave like a prize antelope, whose antlers will be worn as a trophy around his neck to show all the other cavemen what a big, strong, fearless hunter he is. Clearly, you are still stuck in the stone age, but not all men are.
And, to top it off, your stereotypes of men and their behaviours are not even correct, according to any reputable sociologist, anthropologist, or evolutionary psychologist. Those Fred Flinstone ideas of Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus have been discredited decades ago, and no self-respecting scientist espouses them now. The Flinstones were a cartoon in the '50s, not a representation of the '50s, nor of humanity in general.
Even if we completely ignore the fact that your claims of what the "average man" want are outright false, if we take it at face value that the "average man" wants "to achieve things, to accomplish", what on earth does that have to do with having multiple partners? Why would having two girlfriends or having a girlfriend who has another boyfriend have any ability at all to prevent this so-called "average man" from achieving or accomplishing anything? If anything, a larger support structure, possibly with a larger household income and more adults for childcare would ASSIST in his goals of achieving or accomplishing things. And what if what he wants to achieve or accomplish is a large, loving family? This might be too much for your tiny little mind to grasp, but some men actually like children and raising families, and even like taking on the caregiving role when they're allowed to. Can you even be any more obtuse and still tie your own shoes?
Next, let's look at your ridiculous claims of paternity. Are you seriously claiming that, in the age of modern medical technology and a family that encourages open communication, people would have any difficulty knowing who contributed genetic material to the offspring? Is the concept of contraception that foreign to you? People have been fully capable of making conscious choices in who will parent their offspring for the entirety of the human race, and medical technology only makes that easier as time goes on, particularly in a group where the adults are honest with each other and communicate. As for how will the children know who the parents are, they will know the same way that any child knows who his or her parents are, by the parents telling them.
Next, let's move on to your STD claims. Clearly, since you have no clue how individuals can make deliberate choices on parenthood, you appear to be equally clueless on STD transmission. If two people have sex with each other, and they do not discuss how many partners they've ever had, they don't get tested, and they don't talk about their knowledge of STDs, one of those two people stands a good chance that he or she will catch an STD from the other. But if you take 3 people who have gotten STD tests, have shown those negative test results to each other, use contraception and STD barriers, and are not having sex with anyone outside of the group of 3, then that group stands NO chance of transmitting an STD to any of the other 2 ... because there is no STD to transmit. And that is the standard of safety that is encouraged and utilized among polyamorous people. Serial monogamists are in much greater threat to STDs than polyamorists when the culture surrounding testing and open disclosure remains with this discrepancy, as has CLEARLY been demonstrated with the rise of STDs among people who identify as monogamists. Many polyamorists, on the other hand, have the paperwork to prove they are not passing along diseases.
To finally jump from consensual adult relationships to incest is the most absurd leap of logic since the anti-interracial and anti-gay nuts. Perhaps you missed the years of Jerry Springer and Geraldo style television shows, which highlight just such depravities as incest ... FROM MONOGAMISTS. People who claim they are monogamists are far from immune from those very things that seem to disturb you, such as STDs and incest. Whereas the polyamory community does not encourage incest, and requires consenting adults (just to head off any further slippery slope arguments about animals and children), the monogamous community seems to revel in drama, heartache, bad decisions, and harming others.
You are welcome to be disgusted by any practice engaged in by consenting adults. Your approval or enjoyment is not a requirement. However, your consent for other people's relationships is also not a requirement. It is not your place to say what any other set of consenting adults does together, particularly in the privacy of their own domains in which you, and your opinions, were not invited.
You're welcome to be disgusted, and frankly, you disgust me, with your small-minded, unresearched, backwards, misogynistic, emotionally-stunted viewpoint. You're like a child yelling "eww, that's gross! You can't play like that! You have to do it my way because I said so!", telling everyone else they have to play house and you'll be the daddy and carry the briefcase around the playground because it's what "boys do", ordering all the other children around like they were your own personal set of life-size action figures, and stamping your feet and calling people "doodieheads" when Suzy would rather color, Timmy would rather play on the swingset, and Johnny would rather ride the 3-person bicycle with Sally and Kelly.
So go play in your little playhouse, if you can find anyone to play with, and let the rest of us grown ups get on with our lives without your childish proclamation of how you think the world should work.
http://ow.ly/1xoJo
Coming soon… son to marry mother
Relationships
Written by UNCLE SAM
Sunday, 11 April 2010 17:55
The other day I found myself glued to an article in The Observer about a woman who lives with two lovers in the same house in the United Kingdom!
Yes, I had read about Polyandry, where a woman has two husbands, but the prospect of hearing it from the horse’s mouth was, literally, mouth-watering. I mean, how on earth is this supposed to make sense?
As it turned out, this was not even polyandry – because the woman is not legally married to the men; it is called polyamory – each person has more than one partner and they are all okay with the situation.
Frankly speaking, this was troubling, especially coming from a country that is basking in the success of adverts warning people about the sexual network.
To give you a clear picture of what we are dealing with, assume the plot starts with me, Sam Lwanga. I live with my girlfriend Samantha and her other boyfriend, Robert, in a three-bedroom flat in Bugolobi. As if that is not bad enough, I may have another girlfriend, Sylvia, and Robert has another girlfriend called Sheila.
And we are all okay with this arrangement! Madness, isn’t it?
Fortunately this madness has not yet reached our good country, but forgive me for fearing for my beloved country. Because the pace at which things are moving, we may all catch this madness very soon.
I don’t know about you, but for me, the idea of sharing a wife or girlfriend is repulsive to the bone. And I believe that is how it should be. First of all, it is part of a man’s psyche: Your average man wants to achieve things, to accomplish things, to be in control. So if you are genuinely happy in a long-term relationship where your partner also belongs to someone else, I think you need to have your head checked…
Secondly, assume procreation became part of the menu, how on earth do such lovers apportion paternity? (Fortunately the evidence of maternity is ever so glaring). Fine, I know about science and DNA but where is the sense? That we both watch her tummy bulge and we troop to the labour ward and we take a DNA test to determine the father of the baby? Where is the sense of pride in such men?
And then think of all the health repercussions! As we grapple with HIV and Aids and are pleading with the country to get off sexual networks and return to zero-grazing, where is the place for this kind of madness? I actually suspect this thing may be a sinister plot to finish off the African race.
Someone out there must have realised that we are starting to win the war against Aids and they are now starting to promote some of this madness. Do not be shocked if one of these days, you see adverts promoting polyamory or some other mory – in Kampala.
But my worst fear is, where will this obsession with “self-determination”, “consenting adults” and “right to choose” end? At this rate, a time is coming when two consenting adults Julia Lwanga, 45 and her 20-year-old son, Simon Lwanga, are going to fall in love and even sire a child.
And society will be okay with that. God forbid, but if you and I do not reject this age of liberal licentiousness, we are doomed. We are inching ever closer to a world where sons marry mothers and brothers and sisters are free to do their thing provided they are consenting adults. Crazy!
unclesams07@gmail.com (I'm not posting his email to be mean, he posted it himself right in his blog - I copied it exactly without any changes including the email).
my comment:
Your post is so full of wrong that it's fractally wrong. It would take a time machine to go back to your toddlerhood to undo all the outright falsehoods you are spewing in this ignorant, factually incorrect, sexist, bigoted piece of drivel.
Forget, for a moment, that it is completely irrelevant whether or not YOU approve of someone else's relationship. You don't have to like the way someone else does it, just don't do the same. Let's start with your sexism. You have managed to insult both genders with your ignorance. Not all men are as small-minded, possessive, sexist, jealous, insecure, and childish as you are and it is highly insulting to men everywhere that you claim anything in common with them other than genitalia. I am offended on behalf of all men that you are a member of their group. You clearly do not think much of the male gender to characterize them so pitifully, as small-minded cavemen who haven't evolved past knocking a female on the head and dragging her back to the cave like a prize antelope, whose antlers will be worn as a trophy around his neck to show all the other cavemen what a big, strong, fearless hunter he is. Clearly, you are still stuck in the stone age, but not all men are.
And, to top it off, your stereotypes of men and their behaviours are not even correct, according to any reputable sociologist, anthropologist, or evolutionary psychologist. Those Fred Flinstone ideas of Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus have been discredited decades ago, and no self-respecting scientist espouses them now. The Flinstones were a cartoon in the '50s, not a representation of the '50s, nor of humanity in general.
Even if we completely ignore the fact that your claims of what the "average man" want are outright false, if we take it at face value that the "average man" wants "to achieve things, to accomplish", what on earth does that have to do with having multiple partners? Why would having two girlfriends or having a girlfriend who has another boyfriend have any ability at all to prevent this so-called "average man" from achieving or accomplishing anything? If anything, a larger support structure, possibly with a larger household income and more adults for childcare would ASSIST in his goals of achieving or accomplishing things. And what if what he wants to achieve or accomplish is a large, loving family? This might be too much for your tiny little mind to grasp, but some men actually like children and raising families, and even like taking on the caregiving role when they're allowed to. Can you even be any more obtuse and still tie your own shoes?
Next, let's look at your ridiculous claims of paternity. Are you seriously claiming that, in the age of modern medical technology and a family that encourages open communication, people would have any difficulty knowing who contributed genetic material to the offspring? Is the concept of contraception that foreign to you? People have been fully capable of making conscious choices in who will parent their offspring for the entirety of the human race, and medical technology only makes that easier as time goes on, particularly in a group where the adults are honest with each other and communicate. As for how will the children know who the parents are, they will know the same way that any child knows who his or her parents are, by the parents telling them.
Next, let's move on to your STD claims. Clearly, since you have no clue how individuals can make deliberate choices on parenthood, you appear to be equally clueless on STD transmission. If two people have sex with each other, and they do not discuss how many partners they've ever had, they don't get tested, and they don't talk about their knowledge of STDs, one of those two people stands a good chance that he or she will catch an STD from the other. But if you take 3 people who have gotten STD tests, have shown those negative test results to each other, use contraception and STD barriers, and are not having sex with anyone outside of the group of 3, then that group stands NO chance of transmitting an STD to any of the other 2 ... because there is no STD to transmit. And that is the standard of safety that is encouraged and utilized among polyamorous people. Serial monogamists are in much greater threat to STDs than polyamorists when the culture surrounding testing and open disclosure remains with this discrepancy, as has CLEARLY been demonstrated with the rise of STDs among people who identify as monogamists. Many polyamorists, on the other hand, have the paperwork to prove they are not passing along diseases.
To finally jump from consensual adult relationships to incest is the most absurd leap of logic since the anti-interracial and anti-gay nuts. Perhaps you missed the years of Jerry Springer and Geraldo style television shows, which highlight just such depravities as incest ... FROM MONOGAMISTS. People who claim they are monogamists are far from immune from those very things that seem to disturb you, such as STDs and incest. Whereas the polyamory community does not encourage incest, and requires consenting adults (just to head off any further slippery slope arguments about animals and children), the monogamous community seems to revel in drama, heartache, bad decisions, and harming others.
You are welcome to be disgusted by any practice engaged in by consenting adults. Your approval or enjoyment is not a requirement. However, your consent for other people's relationships is also not a requirement. It is not your place to say what any other set of consenting adults does together, particularly in the privacy of their own domains in which you, and your opinions, were not invited.
You're welcome to be disgusted, and frankly, you disgust me, with your small-minded, unresearched, backwards, misogynistic, emotionally-stunted viewpoint. You're like a child yelling "eww, that's gross! You can't play like that! You have to do it my way because I said so!", telling everyone else they have to play house and you'll be the daddy and carry the briefcase around the playground because it's what "boys do", ordering all the other children around like they were your own personal set of life-size action figures, and stamping your feet and calling people "doodieheads" when Suzy would rather color, Timmy would rather play on the swingset, and Johnny would rather ride the 3-person bicycle with Sally and Kelly.
So go play in your little playhouse, if you can find anyone to play with, and let the rest of us grown ups get on with our lives without your childish proclamation of how you think the world should work.
