FEAR MY WRATH!

[joreth]

There's this other thing that people are doing lately. Maybe they've always done this, I don't know, but my memories tell me that, "in the good ol' days", when someone said "I'm getting angry, drop the subject", people used to actually drop the subject if they genuinely didn't want to make the other person angry because they cared that someone was not happy and that they were contributing to that unhappiness. When someone said "this is upsetting me, stop doing it", people either used to care that they were upsetting someone and would stop doing it, or they were trying to upset someone, so would keep doing it.

But lately, when I've said "don't push me on that" or "drop the sujbect" or "I'm getting pissed off so stop", the reaction I'm getting is not "sorry, I didn't want to actually make you angry, I just wanted to converse on this subject, I'll let it go now". No, what I'm getting is "ooh, I'm so scared! Joreth might get angry! What are you going to do about it, huh? Yell at me on the internet?" (This is a quote, by the way, and a very close paraphrase of multiple responses).

For some reason that I can't quite fathom, when I say "this is a triggering subject so leave me alone", what people are hearing is "I AM THE ALL POWERFUL VENGEFUL INTERNET CENSOR. YOU MUST CEASE WRITING ABOUT THIS SUBJECT OR YOU WILL FEAR MY WRATH!"

Listen up assholes, I'm not threatening you with dire punishment for daring to have a difference of opinion. I'm warning you that I am feeling emotional, or about to get emotionally upset, and this conversation will cease to be productive. I'm alerting you to the fact that what you are saying or doing is hurtful to me and I want you to stop hurting me. I'm sorry that being hurt results in my inability to ask you politely to stop hurting me, with an appropriate amount of compassion for your feelings about being asked to stop hurting me [/sarcasm], but I am trying to get you to stop hurting me, not threatening you that I'm about to do something bad to you (although yelling at you might be considered doing "something bad", it's a reaction, not a punitive action, and not a particularly dire one in the grand scheme of things).

I do not have a big enough ego to say that being mad at someone on the internet is this horrible thing for the other person. I don't think that I am important enough for it to matter to most people that I am mad at them.  I am assuming, obviously incorrectly, that you are a decent person who doesn't actually intend to cause me pain or emotional upset, and that notifying you of my impending or current upset is something you might appreciate so that you will have the opportunity to stop doing whatever it is that is upsetting me so that we can continue or improve our relationship (even if it's just online acquaintances).

But, apparently, you do not wish to be notified when you are doing something hurtful so that you can stop hurting me. Apparently, you are enjoying causing me pain, and the challenge to do so after being threatened with consequences only ups the ante.

What the fuck is wrong with you people that when you are told "I'm getting upset, stop doing that", your first thought is not "I didn't want to hurt someone, perhaps I should table this until she's not so upset or in another forum that is more conducive to discussing this subject", but is instead you think "ooh, I'm so scared, c'mon, whatcha gonna do about it?" I'm not warning you not to poke the bear because the bear will tear you to pieces. I'm telling you that I'm hurting and it's because of something that you're doing, and I'm hoping that you are a decent and compassionate person who doesn't want to deliberately hurt me. Clearly, I was wrong.

Comments

People "not letting it go"

[ewen]

I have to say (possibly after being trained into it by 25 years online) that if someone's reaction to "don't push me on that" is to push more, my first thought is that they're a troll (or at least have trollish tendancies). Both online, and in person. Which will tend to change how I interact with them. (Typically I won't bother to call them out as a troll, as that rarely works in my experience; but I'll also reframe my view of the interaction away from being one of mutual humanity -- including not asking them to do things to respect my feelings, and taking steps to protect myself. Generally ignoring trolls is the most expedient approach.)

FWIW, "Apparently, you are enjoying causing me pain, and the challenge to do so after being threatened with consequences only ups the ante." is a classic indication of interaction with a troll IMHO. If this is someone that you didn't previously consider a troll, then it'd be worth at least considering that they have trollish tendancies and/or can "play a troll on TV". (There's a particularly annoying childish masculine culture involving that sort of "playing a troll" teasing to annoy someone to get a reaction, which some people seem to take a long time to grow out of.)

Ewen

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

So, if they know you in real life, do they respect you in real life, or do they not?

(Knowing just what you posted, it seems like not, but it's possible for someone to be cool in real life and to be a bag of dicks on the internet, where things seem more like a game and where they can't see the look of actual pain on your face and so maybe they don't take it seriously without an extra clue-brick. In fact I've seen that a lot. In fact, I've even been "that guy" and sat there obliviously laughing and thinking we're all having fun in spite of what ought to be clear evidence that, no, someone else is NOT having fun and is becoming seriously upset. Only after the fact did I look it over and go "Oh shit. Why did I do that? I oughta have my head examined.)

Another possibility is a privilege thing. Someone who consistently accuses someone else of "power tripping" when they're just making their needs and preferences known, may be implying that some people's needs and preferences don't count or are subservient to the preferences of others. Like calling a woman "strident" and "aggressive" for behavior that they see as normal from a man. Only you know whether that particular shoe fits here.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with EDM's comments to a point, but I'd like to note something about the "censor" part of what you said. There's been a lot of observation online lately about the tendency of people to overuse the idea of "triggering" issues as a passive-aggressive, or outright aggressive, means of controlling a conversation. Basically they're using the behavior you describe to act as bullies & assert their right to be heard without allowing any response.

So for instance someone will come in and say "I believe X about X and this's why," often on a topic that's controversial, or stating an opinion that might be debatable or hurtful to the audience, and then when others respond the original poster will come back with "OMG you're an awful person and you're triggering me, how dare you!" Essentially it boils down to "I will impose my opinion and you're not allowed to speak."

Given that, I can see where strangers online might have the reaction you describe. If it's people you know, there might be other issues to look at.